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Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing

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  • Originally posted by Brainsys View Post
    He was right on the money. We have no evidence the person was a scumbag.
    We don't know who did it, why or how. To determine their personality in such a pejorative way is taking several steps too far atm.

    Oh yea, He or they maybe fine upstanding citizens! What is wrong with you?
    We are talking about 200+ people that have been taken for a ride they did not sign up for. If you think there is any way in the F*****g world to justify what he or they did, you are a bigger idiot than I already think you are!!!!!

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    • Ok so...2 questions...

      1) How do they know the plane was traveling that low to avoid radar if we have basically no data aside from satellite pings? Unless they are hiding something else.

      2) On the Singapore Airlines theory, how close would it need tail the other plane to merge into its radar signature?
      AD.com apocalypse survivor. 727 Fan.

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      • I fly into, out of and over India almost every month. They have some very sophisticated radar and the controllers (though a little hard to understand on the radio) are very good. They also have quite the collection of fighter aircraft and are in the air all the time because of the constant bickering between them and Pakistan. I seriously doubt that a 777 could traverse the entire ADIZ of India in trail of another A/C without being detected.

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        • Originally posted by BlueMax View Post
          MAS Airlines flight MH370 dropped to an altitude of 5,000 feet, or possibly lower, to defeat commercial (secondary) radar coverage after it turned back from its Kuala Lumpur-Beijing route on March 8.
          Investigators are poring over the Boeing 777-200ER's flight profile to determine if it had flown low and used "terrain masking" during most of the eight hours it was missing from the radar coverage of possibly at least three countries.

          "The person who had control over the aircraft has a solid knowledge of avionics and navigation, and left a clean track. It passed low over Kelantan, that was true," said officials. "It's possible that the aircraft had hugged the terrain in some areas, that are mountainous to avoid radar detection."

          And just how long was this A/C flying at 5000' These comments are just ridiculous. The airplane would burn so much fuel at that altitude that the range we be cut by more than 3/4. So this airplane flew around at 5000' and still had enough fuel to make a clandestine landing in the Middle East.
          ROTFLMFAO! Oh wait, maybe they had a KC-135 or KC-10 all set up for the air to air. Oh that's no good can't do that in a 777 can you!!!

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          • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
            Oh yea, He or they maybe fine upstanding citizens! What is wrong with you?
            We are talking about 200+ people that have been taken for a ride they did not sign up for. If you think there is any way in the F*****g world to justify what he or they did, you are a bigger idiot than I already think you are!!!!!
            You are very quick to judge.

            I am not trying to justify anything. I mean we don't yet know what could be justified or not. We don't know who did what and what state of mind that person was in.

            You may recall extremely nice people have done absolutely awful things for what they believed was right at the time. But if the the person was truly "a very unpleasant person" then they would be a scumbag. But we just don't know that and even thinking about it is a diversion.

            Keep calm and keep flying.

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            • Originally posted by Fear_of_Flying View Post
              The problem that I have with the article isn't the "facts" that they list, which are basically just a re-hashing of what at the time of publication was some of the more recent information being brought forth (I prefer the word "evidence", I think), but the conclusion they draw, which is that the passengers are still alive. All of what they said could be true, but you can infer from none of it that the plane didn't crash, let alone that the passengers didn't die in some other manner.

              A more compelling piece of evidence that the plane landed, however, rather than crashing, is that now that we believe the pilot did not add extra fuel, it seems the plane should have run empty prior to the last ping.
              Yip - fair enough.

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              • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                I fly into, out of and over India almost every month. They have some very sophisticated radar and the controllers (though a little hard to understand on the radio) are very good. They also have quite the collection of fighter aircraft and are in the air all the time because of the constant bickering between them and Pakistan. I seriously doubt that a 777 could traverse the entire ADIZ of India in trail of another A/C without being detected.
                I agree. I think pigeons have trouble across that border ... and onwards is going to be subject to the US early warning radars in and over Afghanistan & Turkey.

                If the object is to quietly fly into oblivion and I can't think of a better explanation right now based on the verifiable evidence - then the Indian Ocean would be the way to go. One aspect would be that the plane would reach a no-return point sooner. No last minute temptation to put down at the nearest field. That's what a suicidal pilot who didn't take the first opportunity to crash might be looking for.

                The answer to this mystery is in the flyer's head, not in the plane. Unless there was a suicide note or discovery of a second life then if we never find the cockpit voice recorder we may never know.

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                • Originally posted by Brainsys View Post
                  You are very quick to judge.

                  I am not trying to justify anything. I mean we don't yet know what could be justified or not. We don't know who did what and what state of mind that person was in.

                  You may recall extremely nice people have done absolutely awful things for what they believed was right at the time. But if the the person was truly "a very unpleasant person" then they would be a scumbag. But we just don't know that and even thinking about it is a diversion.
                  I think you should change your screen name to brainlackof.

                  There is no way to justify commandeering an aircraft let alone one with 200+ passengers on board. I don't give a rats ass what their "state of mind" is. Read your sentence that I have made bold, Are you in your right mind? I guess that the two brothers that detonated the pressure cooker bombs during the Boston marathon were really O.K. guys because they claimed that it was in retaliation for what the Americans have done in Afghanistan. So that was their justification. WTFO!

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                  • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                    I don't give a rats ass what their "state of mind" is.
                    I do. It is probably the most important thing to try and understand about this incident. But then I was in the suicide prevention business which is why I hung into this thread when the likelihood of this became apparent fairly early on.

                    Its trying to understand people in an alternate reality that helps to prevent re-occurrence. Which is probably all we can hope for at this stage. This (non-aviation) disaster is haunting me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorgate_tube_crash

                    This is one scenario we could have here. May I suggest we stop thinking of this as an aviation disaster. Its probably down to an unforeseen failure in one human being. A very human disaster.

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                    • Two(ish) questions, mostly just for my own education:

                      Pretty far-fetched but, hypothetically, could a pilot file a fictitious flight plan, then while over the ocean re-enable transponder and on entering a new country's ATC system, check in with the fake flight plan, using a new transponder code etc to fly across another airspace? Or does the transponder also send information that wouldn't be fakeable that would identify the plane? Or would there need to be a handoff from where the plane supposedly came from?

                      (I know this one has too many variables to be a definitive answer) Assuming the plane went down in the ocean, does anyone know roughly how long wreckage would float and be identifiable? i.e., if it wasn't found for a week, a month, a year, would there still be enough wreckage that hadn't sunk or broken up enough that it couldn't be positively identified and tracked back to the likely location.

                      If the plane was ditched and scuttled at sea, there would presumably be very little wreckage to find? Is it even feasible to reliably ditch a plane this size in open ocean or would it be far too rough?

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                      • Brief comment: We dropped two bombs on Japan with, give or take, a couple hundred thousand casualties. Truman made the decision. What kind of "person" could do this? Well, Truman for one. Then whoever ordered the fire bombing of Dresden. Sadly, people who are VERY certain of their own righteousness are a fixed element in civilization. I'm sure a couple hundred plane passengers figure very little in an apocalyptic vision.

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                        • Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
                          Brief comment: We dropped two bombs on Japan with, give or take, a couple hundred thousand casualties. Truman made the decision. What kind of "person" could do this? Well, Truman for one. Then whoever ordered the fire bombing of Dresden. Sadly, people who are VERY certain of their own righteousness are a fixed element in civilization. I'm sure a couple hundred plane passengers figure very little in an apocalyptic vision.

                          I don't even believe you are comparing the two. But then again I have read other posts of yours over the years.

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                          • Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
                            Brief comment: We dropped two bombs on Japan with, give or take, a couple hundred thousand casualties. Truman made the decision. What kind of "person" could do this? Well, Truman for one. Then whoever ordered the fire bombing of Dresden. Sadly, people who are VERY certain of their own righteousness are a fixed element in civilization. I'm sure a couple hundred plane passengers figure very little in an apocalyptic vision.
                            I'm pretty sure that apocalypse had nothing to do with what happened to MH370.

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                            • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
                              I'm pretty sure that apocalypse had nothing to do with what happened to MH370.
                              Precisely. We currently have no idea if the person responsible had the the futures of 238 other souls in his mind or not. It could be a very internalised thing, they were just collateral.

                              We are probably not in destruction for destruction's sake territory (aka terrorism) or the guy would have landed it on some iconic building.

                              Which led me to another thought. What if instead of turning off the transponder and ACARS he had called ATC and said - "I've just had enough - I'm taking this bird to the middle of the Indian Ocean to die and here are the co-ordinates."

                              Everybody could have scrambled jets, got negotiators on the line and whatever. But there is absolutely nothing the authorities could do to stop the inevitable. So why were they turned off? Just to get some peace for those last few hours is one answer. Maybe as part of dream to use his skill to outwit the system. Anybody come up with better?

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                              • Originally posted by Brainsys View Post
                                (...)

                                Which led me to another thought. What if instead of turning off the transponder and ACARS he had called ATC and said - "I've just had enough - I'm taking this bird to the middle of the Indian Ocean and here are the co-ordinates."

                                Everybody could have scrambled jets, got negotiators on the line and whatever. But there is absolutely nothing the authorities could do to stop the inevitable. So why were they turned off? Just to get some peace for those last few hours is one answer. Maybe as part of dream to use his skill to outwit the system. Anybody come up with better?
                                Enabling relatives to claim the insurance money.

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