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Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

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  • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
    I would imagine that this kind of data would auto send to the airline rather than ATC ?
    No. How could an airline know what the transponder is transmitting? THe data is not "auto send" to anyone in particular. Is broadcast for who is there to listen to it. But you need to BE THERE (line of sight and within range).

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • Originally posted by Evan View Post
      I think there were two moments between 7:22:30 and 7:24:20 where he had decided to go through with it but then backed out. If I had been on the inbound flight, this would send a shiver down my spine...
      Quite plausible...
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
        At 919hrs, 540 on type, the first officer wasn't exactly a rookie...
        Do we talk about that guy, 10 years younger than me, who dared to permanently close the door against his captain?

        There are German sources who say that he had flown more than 600 hours on the A320.
        Er hatte eine Erfahrung von rund 630 Flugstunden.
        (de wiki)
        Ich war Gott sei dank nicht dabei. Wenn ich Passagier gewesen wäre, hätte ich ihn eventuell gefragt, könnte es aber heute nicht mehr berichten!

        Are facts and figures really important now?

        Since June 10th, 2015, all German passengers of flight 4U 9525, and I will never in my life forget this flight number, are delivered to the cities where they once lived. They lived because not a single body out of onehundredandfifty humans survived.

        I saw the pictures on TV, when the first bodies arrived at EDDL, in a MD-11F (LH Cargo). This is our freight section!

        Dead bodies don't request a window seat.

        I feel with Haltern, which is less than 35 km from here.
        Last edited by LH-B744; 2015-06-16, 02:20. Reason: German sources. +1 very personal comment (request translation if needed)
        The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
        The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
        And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
        This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

        Comment


        • ADS and mode S transponders both support broadcasting / reporting of "selected altitude" and "selected heading" although I don't think it's required.

          In the case of this flight, it looks like mode S data is what was used: http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/U...ltitude_by_ATC

          Here's a forum post with what's claimed to be the actual data: http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...-some-more-dat
          Very interesting. I'm yet to hear a single controller say anything to the effect "Flight XXX, I cleared you to FL 230, but I see you've selected FL210" or "your assigned heading was 215, but I see you selected 225", so I imagine the capability is not widespread.
          It is in use in some places, but its not widespread (yet). The iteration I've seen is one for oceanic flights where if you modify your FMC and it doesn't align with your cleared route, ATC get alarm bells and get quite annoyed at you. The same principle applies for your cleared level, and I'm told it is in operation, but I haven't cocked it up yet so I can't confirm!

          Comment


          • Even if I sit in the leftseat of a car, one of my very first thoughts is, and this is not a joke, be
            ALWAYS
            prepared to provide the seats in the car to:
            a) your parents
            b) your colleagues
            c) Mr Carsten Spohr.

            So, how on earth was this terrible young boy able to define an endless descent in what was 'his jet' in the moment of the catastrophe
            ?!?

            There is only one explanation. He was ill and thus was not able to think.

            Or was he really willing to kill one of his future colleagues, a young 4U crew member, who was working in the cabin of flight 4U 9525 only to change into the cockpit a few weeks later. This young man lived in Dortmund and he is dead now.

            And I bet, he would've been the better pilot.

            Letztes Geleit, so heisst es auf Deutsch, für diesen jungen Kollegen.

            Last edited by LH-B744; 2015-06-16, 03:17. Reason: Request translation if needed.
            The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
            The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
            And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
            This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

            Comment


            • The Flight Captain of 4U 9525. Dead.

              And even I am learning newer facts about the catastrophe today.

              10 years younger than me, the illest F/O that 4U will have ever had.

              But what about the young 4U crew member from Dortmund, Lw OA in German, or in English, cadet. I have not found more detail about that young man.
              How old was he?
              But for this human there is a sentence that is good for all 150 humans on board:
              They have died senseless and way too early. When fathers have to bury their sons.

              I couldn't imagine how to do that!

              This is true also for the responsible Germanwings flight captain. A few minutes ago, I have learned his name and his age.
              34 years old. Only 3 years younger than me. And equipped with 6000 flight hours on the A320, also on

              LH-A320.

              What an incredible waste.

              Ein letztes Geleit. Insbesondere und ganz im Speziellen für diesen jungen Kapitän.

              When our Landesvater, in the highest payed position of Germany and Federal President, Mr Johannes Rau passed away in 2006, there was music. I think it is adequate here. For all 150 humans on board.

              Johann Sebastian Bach, aus dem BWV 147 - Jesus bleibet meine Freude.



              PS: Representative = Volksvertreter. But Mr Rau was more than that.
              And many of the young boys asked me, wtf is a Lw OA? 18 year old boys do no longer learn the three branches of service:
              Heer, Marine und Luftwaffe. Because, in contrast to me, none of them (!) really worked for the German Army.
              In Germany, there is no longer a duty to go to the army.

              So, the knowledge about ranks in the German Air Force disappears more and more.
              Offiziersanwärter OA = der Übergang von den Mannschaftsdienstgraden zur Offizierslaufbahn. Gekennzeichnet durch silberne Kordel.

              One of the young boys was very curious. I did not tell him that the keyword is DLR. Imho, you know all the ranks and possibilities when you are 21, or you don't.
              "Wer hat denn hier noch gedient?" still is a frequently asked question when it comes to conversation from man to man.
              35+ ...

              A man who asks this question, if he really discovers one young man in his audience (.... ...) is, e.g.

              Prof. Dr. Ernstpeter Maurer, another well known JSB (and GWF Hegel) fan here in the area. But I still think that his employer does not really support senior students with a pre-college life (35+ !), not either in the year 2015.

              Since those days, I am tryin a less theoretical way to life. (Read my jp account, and you'll learn - almost - everthin bout me ... )

              But: No one is really able to deny his personal history. This is also true for me...


              Conclusion: One or two well educated men have survived the catastrophe of March 24th, 2015,

              because, thank God, they have not been on board.
              Last edited by LH-B744; 2015-06-20, 02:34. Reason: more detail, + music, + tryin to write English: will've ever had.
              The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
              The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
              And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
              This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

              Comment


              • An interesting (to me at least) related (probably) item...

                While on a "Mike's carpet cleaning and airline d/b/a US Airways express" flight from BOS to PHL early last week I noticed something interesting. When the captain left the cockpit for a short time to use the facilities, one of the FAs entered the cockpit and remained there until the captain returned.

                I don't fly very often but have never seen that before.
                Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                Eric Law

                Comment


                • It's beginning to get more common here in the UK/EU.
                  If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                  Comment


                  • That's nice, but click click clack clack dancing on the ceiling still seems available, you just don't get to meditate while Otto does it for you.
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                    Comment


                    • Final Report by BEA
                      AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                      Originally posted by orangehuggy
                      the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by James Bond View Post
                        May be a minor semantic matter. But if it was "deliberate flight into terrain", then the word "accident" hardly seems the right word choice. If I remember right, we've switched from "accident" to "crash" in the USA. To call it an "accident" implies what the investigation is intended to establish. Till it finds it was truly accidental, it seems like it is just a "crash". But what a colossal bureaucratic SNAFU. Really. All parties involved seemed to fail to envision their larger duty to society. You can call aviation "safe", but reading about these wide cracks through which critical info slips makes one jittery about putting one's destiny in the hands of such people.

                        Comment


                        • Zaventem is a topic here? Although only 1 person was really killed (?).

                          Well. I find myself much more nearer to Lubitz. I am against what killed HRH Princess Diana, a so called investigative journalism. But suicide assassins should and must be named.

                          I've found out that Patrick could have been like a brother to me. Aviation enthusiast, 30+ years old.

                          And killed by an aviation beginner. 630 flight hours. Far from being 30 years old. Yesterday, there was something that seemed like the try of an explanation, in German TV.
                          An Austrian psychologist tried to understand what went wrong in the F/Os head.

                          Well. During the rest of the broadcast, there came up a very brilliant feeling. I am not the only man who until today does not understand what went wrong with Lubitz. Was it difficult for him to accept Patrick as his captain?

                          I have lost a friend in Patrick, although we have never met. 6000 flight hours gain my respect, regardless of age.

                          When fathers lose their children. That was a very hard broadcast for me.
                          The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                          The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                          And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                          This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
                            [...] You can call aviation "safe", but reading about these wide cracks through which critical info slips makes one jittery about putting one's destiny in the hands of such people.
                            Aviation should be far away from a destiny. And if you ask me, it is. In the name of Patrick, I like to stand for experience, and
                            COMMUNICATION.

                            Lubitz apparently was never able to provide such skills, not in front of his colleagues (?!).

                            It sometimes appears like it has been far away. Two different two letter codes, a different a/c type.. But Patricks destination was my home airport. And he never arrived here because of a ... suicide assassin?

                            I have looked in the eyes of Mr. Carsten Spohr, almost one year ago. He also seemed like a man who has lost family members. And Patrick was one of us. Not far away.

                            Very close.
                            The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                            The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                            And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                            This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                            Comment


                            • New (very valid) clouds of doubts and inconsistency hoover over BEA's and prosecutors' investigations, and new non-stated theories that involve several simultaneous and independent events including:

                              - The PIC leaving the cocpit, ADN
                              - The FO becoming incapacitated, AND
                              - The AP failing in a very strange way (note, the AP not failing would also be very strange given the findings), AND
                              - The door keypad failing.

                              Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                                New (very valid) clouds of doubts and inconsistency hoover over BEA's and prosecutors' investigations, and new non-stated theories that involve several simultaneous and independent events including:

                                - The PIC leaving the cocpit, ADN
                                - The FO becoming incapacitated, AND
                                - The AP failing in a very strange way (note, the AP not failing would also be very strange given the findings), AND
                                - The door keypad failing.

                                http://avherald.com/h?article=483a5651/0158&opt=0
                                Give me a break...

                                The findings of the investigation, notably from the FDR, do not align with this new scenario:
                                However, the first CVR assessment conducted by French Gendarmerie (they were not permitted to take notes hence no transcript could be produced), which became the base for the states attorney's statements in the subsequent press conference, clearly noted, that it can not be determined whether the person present in the cockpit was conscious or not.

                                Sure, but the FDR clearly DOES determine that the 'person present in the cockpit' was conscious. So, that's taken care of.

                                The flight was at cruise, on managed guidance, and the F/O dialed in a selected altitude target of varying amounts (clearly under psychological stress) down to the minimum setting, and then repeatedly increased the airspeed target to achieve a greater vertical speed (as this was now in OPEN DES selected guidance mode). All that selected guidance doesn't occur without a conscious person present in the cockpit. Furthermore, it was revealed during the investigation that this same 'person present in the cockpit' made similar selected guidance anomalies during the inbound flight to BCN. You might remember how chilling a revelation that was.

                                This new 'alternative fact' scenario is nonsense. It will probably become very popular on parlour-talking forums.

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