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Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

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  • #76
    Originally posted by observer View Post
    according to new york times, one of fc member was out of the cockpit by the time the plane started to descend and was unable to get back.
    wtaf!
    AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

    Originally posted by orangehuggy
    the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

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    • #77
      The most dangerous part of the flight is not the take off or landing anymore its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet
      moving quickly in air

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      • #78
        Originally posted by orangehuggy View Post
        The most dangerous part of the flight is not the take off or landing anymore its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet
        Boom!
        AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

        Originally posted by orangehuggy
        the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

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        • #79
          @Gabriel what to make of this news now considering your last post to me about the cockpit door codes? Surely one of the pilots would be able to get back in the cockpit if the one at the controls was incapacitated?

          This is so strange. Is this another pilot suicide?

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
            This is so strange. Is this another pilot suicide?
            If this early report proves to correct, it seems so. However, it is very early here. Sounds like theories like MH370, where a pilot may have depressurized a plane and crashed it.

            The article seems to make it sound like the pilot out of the cockpit gave up on trying to get back in. Who would do that if they believed they were going to die? I would expect to hear pounding on that door until the recorder stopped recording.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Bryan View Post
              If this early report proves to correct, it seems so. However, it is very early here. Sounds like theories like MH370, where a pilot may have depressurized a plane and crashed it.

              The article seems to make it sound like the pilot out of the cockpit gave up on trying to get back in. Who would do that if they believed they were going to die? I would expect to hear pounding on that door until the recorder stopped recording.
              Not according to the New York Times, which is the source of this new information as relayed to them by an investigator:

              “The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator told the Times. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

              “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

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              • #82
                If the report is correct, we may have the following scenario: as soon as the plane reached cruizing altitud, pilot or co-pilot left the cockpit, a decompression started, whoever was in charge started descending procedures, whoever was out tried to return to the cockpit. Due to overload and/or lack of oxygen, whoever was in charge was incapacitated even to open the door.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Observer View Post
                  If the report is correct, we may have the following scenario: as soon as the plane reached cruizing altitud, pilot or co-pilot left the cockpit, a decompression started, whoever was in charge started descending procedures, whoever was out tried to return to the cockpit. Due to overload and/or lack of oxygen, whoever was in charge was incapacitated even to open the door.
                  Earlier in the thread it was stated that the crew can reenter the cockpit, without aid from the inside. HOWEVER, the crew in the cockpit can lock the door as such that it prevents reentry. In the case of an accident (assumption now is outside pilot has portable crew O2), they should be able to open the door. In the case of suicide, the door would be locked, plane crashed, all while the crew outside of the cockpit is helpless to prevent it.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Bryan View Post
                    Earlier in the thread it was stated that the crew can reenter the cockpit, without aid from the inside. HOWEVER, the crew in the cockpit can lock the door as such that it prevents reentry. In the case of an accident (assumption now is outside pilot has portable crew O2), they should be able to open the door. In the case of suicide, the door would be locked, plane crashed, all while the crew outside of the cockpit is helpless to prevent it.
                    So in the case of incapacitated PIC in the cockpit - who then also would be unable to confirm to open the door - the key question is: "how long is the lock-out time of the door?"

                    In the terrible case of deliberate descend commanded by a person in the cockpit who is not incapacitated that perseon in the cockpit would just lock the door / refuse entry. Since 9/11 doors should be strong enough to withstand a forced opening from a single person on the outside.

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                    • #85
                      Is anyone sure that the NY Times report is correct, it would not be the first time that premature information releases have proved to be incorrect.

                      In any case this article suggests something different:

                      French air accident investigators say they have extracted a recording of “voices, sounds and alarms” from the cockpit of Germanwings flight 4U9525 that crashed on Tuesday, killing all 150 on board.


                      The Airbus A320 that ploughed into an Alpine mountain flew “right to the end”, the investigators said, and did not explode mid-flight. It also appeared not to have suffered a sudden drop in pressure.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Observer View Post
                        According to New York Times, one of FC member was out of the cockpit by the time the plane started to descend and was unable to get back.

                        http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/wo...rash.html?_r=0
                        I would expect the investigation team to quickly deny this report if untrue at this time.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
                          I would expect the investigation team to deny this report if not true.

                          Could the banging be damaged structure flapping around in the airflow (gradually getting louder then breaking free and flying away).
                          I imagine that is a plausible source of the noise, however - my hunch is that (if it is true, we dont know yet) it is fairly easy to suspect what sounds like door knocking then banging the ramming sound like. Could they misinterpret? I suppose so, but I think that's plausible but quite unlikely. That's my 0.02.

                          I thought prospect of decompr. was just so awful - but if this turns out to be what NYT is suggesting...that will just make me sick to my stomach...both for the pax, for the PNF who is utterly powerless, and for pilots at large who will take a 'hit' for one exceedingly rare mans actions.

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                          • #88
                            Armored doors

                            It appears this may be an unintended consequence of armored cockpit doors!

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
                              @Gabriel what to make of this news now considering your last post to me about the cockpit door codes? Surely one of the pilots would be able to get back in the cockpit if the one at the controls was incapacitated?
                              This is so strange. Is this another pilot suicide?
                              Exactly my thought too. If the other pilot was not able to return then the pilot in the cockpit was not incapacitated. Either that or nobody among the crew knew or had the access code.

                              I am seriously starting to wonder if these secure doors cause more death than they avoid.

                              As a containment, it should be immediately made mandatory what in some airlines is a policy: When a pilot goes out another crew member goes in. No person alone in the cockpit. Not a super-solution but something (consider the flight deck officer program in the US, where the pilot can carry a gun, not much a flight attendant can do if the pilot is serious about his intentions).

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                              • #90
                                Then it seems to have been a deliberate act ?! Because with the emergency code the door would normaly open, if it is not locked as you can see in the video:

                                #Aircraft#Airbus#Door#CockpitAIRCRAFT | Airbus A320/A330/A340/A350/A380Reinforced Cockpit Door Procedure / OperationHow to Unlock Cockpit Door from the Outsi...

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