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Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

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  • #31
    AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

    Originally posted by orangehuggy
    the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Kpeters View Post
      I know it's too much speculation but I'm thinking of 2 things.

      -Lufthansa incident type of decent were they had to disable the autopilot but didn't realize it until it was too late.

      -Violent decompression with expedite descent and distracted pilots?
      Are there designated escape tracks for the alps ? I thought there was a chart with instructions for various sectors. but i can't seem to find it.

      Seems odd that they did not turn onto a track taking them away from the terrain. They descended below 14000ft. Yet I make the average descent 3500ft/m with fairly constant IAS looks like it is under control.

      Very sad, the images from the site are shocking, could be a very difficult investigation.

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      • #33
        Apparently D-AIPX had some issue with the NLG doors that required servicing before this flight. I'm wondering if anyone knows if the procedure might require shutting off or removing the nearby crew supplemental O2. I ask this because it has occurred in the past that the bottle was not turned back on after maintenance. In the instance I refer to, the crew noticed the 0 psi indication and corrected the issue pre-flight. But if they hadn't... What is the pre-flight check procedure?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          Apparently D-AIPX had some issue with the NLG doors that required servicing before this flight. I'm wondering if anyone knows if the procedure might require shutting off or removing the nearby crew supplemental O2. I ask this because it has occurred in the past that the bottle was not turned back on after maintenance. In the instance I refer to, the crew noticed the 0 psi indication and corrected the issue pre-flight. But if they hadn't... What is the pre-flight check procedure?
          What an awful circumstance if that were the cause.

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          • #35
            Here is video of the crash site via helicopter:

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Haendli View Post
              If a plane comes down nearly 30000 feet in less then 6 minutes i would doubt CFIT right? Greets Mike
              It could be CFIT.

              It was more like 8 minutes, what gives you some 3500 fpm average.
              The descent rate was quite constant, as was the heading, and the ground speed (from radar data) was slowly diminishing what is compatible with constant IAS/CAS as you go down.

              It could be an AP inadvertently left in vertical speed mode with the AT holding the speed, or in "airspeed" mode with insufficient power to hold the altitude. Of course the pilots should have noticed, but....
              This would be compatible with the lack of mayday and with some rumors that the crash site is higher than the lower it got (GPWS "woke up" the pilots that started evasive climb maneuver but could not avoid impact).

              It could also be a glide due to loss of power, but that would not explain the lack of mayday call. The plane had electrical power since the transponder kept squacking.

              Another idea... Helios scenario, loss pressure, loss of consciousness, pilot reaches the top of the climb and then who knows what the AP/FMC did...

              All pure speculation. I could mention terrorist attack, OVNIs, your choice...

              But I would not absolutely discard CFIT yet.

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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              • #37
                Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
                So, everything sounds like a "catastrophic sudden decompression". Midair collision? explosion at the cargo compartment?
                Constant vertical speed, constant speed and constant track doesn't sound like catastrophic anything.


                Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  There's a graph plot of the altitude and VS data on Pprune that seems to indicate phugoid occillations in the descent. I think this suggests that the pilots were not in command (incapacited?) and/or that the A/C might have been in OPEN DES mode.
                  If the phugoid is true, then I think that no AP vertical mode will make that. If "open des" is like "speed mode" of "fltch" or "speed on elevator" mode, then that doesn't make a phugoid. (unless "open des" is basically "no vertical mode").

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                  • #39
                    Open Des is speed on elevator, which is the mode used for an Emergency Descent.

                    Perhaps, on the verge of hypoxia, they selected OP DES and spun down to 6,800' and left in the current airspeed, then lost consciousness.
                    Entirely plausible.

                    There's still plenty of time to don masks and deal with the issue.
                    Cabin climbs pretty quick if there's a large hole in your aircraft. Cockpit oxygen lines can be severed in depressurisations too... there's plenty of viable, non-freak scenarios that can have this sort of result.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by MCM View Post
                      Open Des is speed on elevator, which is the mode used for an Emergency Descent.
                      Thanks. So it doesn't result in a phugoid (long period longitudinal oscillation).

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                      • #41
                        "Open des" or "expedite" mode, according to vertical speed values and changes, I believe more in expedite mode, after a while. The oldest 320s don't maintain the speed perfectly and it's usual to encounter such speed variations in open des or exp mode, open clb...(exp desc it's +/- VMO/MMO if I remember well)
                        It's consistent in my opinion with depressurization and I believe in a question of hypoxia for the pilots (or the pilot if the other one left his seat for some reasons).

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                        • #42


                          AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                          Originally posted by orangehuggy
                          the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            That debris looks awfully scattered around to be an impact with the plane still in one piece, to me it looks like it broke up pre impact but still within the same general area that the debris came down to rest all in the same area.

                            Or the impact was so violent it rebounded the debris or small light weight stuff in the plane as in the case of the PSA that came down in California where the pilots were shot by a suicidal man, and he put the plane in a straight nose down dive leaving a crater but all the lightweight stuff in the plane shot back up after the impact and came to rest around the impact site.

                            Which is how they found the guys note he wrote to his former boss he was killing on the same flight.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by KGEG View Post
                              That debris looks awfully scattered around to be an impact with the plane still in one piece, to me it looks like it broke up pre impact but still within the same general area that the debris came down to rest all in the same area.
                              On the contrary, I think that any reasonable pre-impact break-up process would leave a wide scatter areas, yes, but with some big chunks (Re: Lockerbie). The miniature debris that we can see there talks of some high energy and violent impact.

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                              • #45
                                If it turns out the pilot's oxygen system was compromised rendering them incapacitated, but that of the passengers and cabin crew was working, would the locked cockpit door prevent anyone in the cabin from rendering aid to the pilots or delivering them oxygen / attempting to wake them up?

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