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Thread: Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

  1. #101
    Junior Member pacoperez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatanka82_PA View Post
    time callsign latitude longitude altitude_feet squawk ground_speed ignore vspeed radar_id
    09:30:59Z.818 GWI18G 43.137 5.687 38000 5512 478 26 -64 950
    09:30:59Z.016 GWI18G 43.138 5.688 38000 5512 478 26 -128 2185
    09:30:59Z.644 GWI18G 43.138 5.688 38000 5512 478 26 -64 804
    etc..........
    Hi Tatanka, something should be wrong in that table because look at the resulting chart. I see that times are not consecutive.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierpp View Post
    Very interesting and leads to my assumption this is a deliberate act of pilot suicide
    Yes, but yesterday my assumption was sudden depressurisation. Both reasonable on the preliminary information available at the time. Further info will confirm or rule out this speculation. If it does confirm then the reasons behind a suicide become fair game.

    What I am finding difficult is coping with speculation on the AH website in advance of information either preliminary or confirmed but only related to prejudice and stereotypes.

  3. #103
    Junior Member pacoperez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Observer View Post
    According to New York Times, one of FC member was out of the cockpit by the time the plane started to descend and was unable to get back.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/wo...rash.html?_r=0
    Pilot suffered a heart attack maybe?
    But then does nobody outside the cockpit have a password to open the door? Really?

  4. #104
    Member James Bond's Avatar
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    BREAKING NEWS

    BEA: FO has manipulated FMS and was alivie until the end of the Flight.
    AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

    Quote Originally Posted by orangehuggy View Post
    the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

  5. #105
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I am seriously starting to wonder if these secure doors cause more death than they avoid.
    Time for relative risks. 3000 9/11 death toll. 150 here AND the Egyptian suicide had both pilots present. ( kind of like a the twin = 2x failure rate but generally makes airliners safer )

    Yesterday I heard that some airlines require a FA to enter the cockpit for biobreaks.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoperez View Post
    Pilot suffered a heart attack maybe?
    But then does nobody outside the cockpit have a password to open the door? Really?
    You would have thought both pilots would have access to the code for this very reason? Secondly if they both have the code, then there was a deliberate act by the captain inside to keep the F/O outside....hmmm....

  7. #107
    Member James Bond's Avatar
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    BEA: FO initiated descent by keying attitude selector. CPT at door, knocked, no response. Noise of human breathing heard until impact. ATC calls ignored.
    AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

    Quote Originally Posted by orangehuggy View Post
    the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

  8. #108
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainsys View Post
    What I am finding difficult is coping with speculation on the AH website in advance of information either preliminary or confirmed but only related to prejudice and stereotypes.
    GIven the recent surge of nationalism in Germany and xenophobia in France, you can expect the racial speculation to blossom rapidly now. Either the BEA or the German authorities must release a statement asap to contain this. Their reticence on co-pilot details has me worried that race or ethnicity may be involved and is only fueling such speculation. 'German national' does not mean 'blue-eyed Aryan'. If this was a murdercide and the pilot-flying turns out to be of a certain non-Aryan persuasion, this PEGIDA thing is going to explode and a lot of innocent people are going to become the target. I sincerely hope this is not the case.

  9. #109
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    It is on the local news now ... FO crashed the plane intentionally, and the Captain was locked out of the cockpit. They claim this was confirmed by French authorities.

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    BBC now reporting:
    The co-pilot of the Germanwings flight that crashed into the French Alps took sole control of plane and intentionally started the descent, officials say.
    French prosecutors, citing information from the cockpit voice recorder said the pilot had just left the cockpit and had been unable to re-enter it.
    Whether intent was to crash or to just get to lower altitude isn't mentioned but will hopefully be made clear in due course once the investigation continues. Just hearing on the radio some more information saying copilot was conscious at all times and was refusing to allow entry, but that's not mentioned on the BBC online news [yet].

    Has there been a clear answer as to whether the 2nd data recorder has been found? I'd heard that the casing had but the electronic contents were missing, but that may have been a mistranslation as another report had interpreted it as that the mounting was found but the box was missing, which sounds more hopeful - if the electronics had been smashed out of the casing they're not likely to be usable...

    edit: BBC article now updated to be more specific:
    The co-pilot of the Germanwings flight that crashed into the French Alps wanted to "destroy the plane", French investigators have said.

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    Okay, I will ask. What is the religious background of the FO? The Marseilles prosecutor chose not to answer the question when asked about names, nationality and ethnicity. Totally moved onto talking about the cockpit door.

  12. #112
    Member James Bond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xspeedy View Post
    Okay, I will ask. What is the religious background of the FO? The Marseilles prosecutor chose not to answer the question when asked about names, nationality and ethnicity. Totally moved onto talking about the cockpit door.
    German, Caucasian... Religion at this stage is unknown. I'm thinking mental illness.
    AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

    Quote Originally Posted by orangehuggy View Post
    the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

  13. #113
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    Andreas Lubitz (german national) is a name floated by French and Czech media, citing the prosecutor as the source.


    EDIT:
    12h51 - "Pas répertorié comme terroriste"

    Il est de "nationalité allemande" et n'est "pas répertorié comme terroriste". Son nom est "Andreas Lubitz", épelle le procureur de Marseille.
    http://www.bfmtv.com/societe/en-dire...di-871653.html

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    I read that the entire fleet subscribes to ACARS system. If that is true, even without the FDR we should have enough data to confirm any decompression or other major emergency, right?

    I would suspect at this point they have enough info with voice recorder to focus on the FO as the cause of this crash.

  15. #115
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I am seriously starting to wonder if these secure doors cause more death than they avoid.
    Clearly, the current door lock scheme is a risk in itself and has to be rethought. I suggested long ago that either pilot should have a code that is different from the cabin crew and cannot be overridden. That still doesn't solve the problem of the deadbolt though. The only real solution is to concentrate on the pressure doors: we must keep nafarious threats on the outside of them. Providing a means to lock the captain out of his own flight deck was always a fools errand.

    The cabin crew member in the cockpit policy is just as worrisome. Cabin crew are probably less scrutinized than pilots and more apt to be nafarious... and there's an axe and two ropes in there!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by xspeedy View Post
    Okay, I will ask. What is the religious background of the FO?
    I dunno. If I had been that pilot - it is easy to look up and see I was christened and married in Church and was a Governor of a Church School. So am i a Christian who believes in re-incarnation, and will live again?

    A deeper investigation would show I am an atheist. But then many people ascribe beliefs to atheists I do not share. If the background and motivations of the FO are relevant then, I fear a deep and lengthy investigation may, and only may, reveal intention. Or there may be a suicide note somewhere revealing all. We, and that probably includes all the officials, simply haven't a clue at this time. Live with it and be patient.

    Methinks CFIT are a lot harder to investigate and even get a reliable answer than technical failure. Find the latter and you can fix it. The former is likely to be just a bottomless pit of confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainsys View Post
    Methinks CFIT are a lot harder to investigate and even get a reliable answer than technical failure. Find the latter and you can fix it. The former is likely to be just a bottomless pit of confusion.
    For *deliberate* CFIT I agree. That goes into the realm of psychology which is an inexact science - especially when practiced in hindsight with a deceased patient.

    On the other hand, most CFIT accidents are things like navigational errors resulting in aircraft attempting to fly through granite, and in those cases it's usually pretty easy to determine the first-level cause such as "navigational error". Of course figuring out *why* the navigational error was made can be more difficult.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

  18. #118
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    There is no longer any need for the FDR to be found. The aircraft was not at fault. I realize this comes as a disappointment to the scarebus cult. Immediate reparations must be made to the pilot screening and vigilance policies. Oh, wait, sorry, that moment was actually one year ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Immediate reparations must be made to the pilot screening and vigilance policies.
    It's quite possible that improvements can be made, but no such process is infallible.

    Some homicidal maniacs are easy to identify (before they commit a homicidal act), others can be identified with intense scrutiny, and others simply cannot. One such person comes to mind that in 1933 managed to convince millions of people that he was sane...
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

  20. #120
    Member Arrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Bond View Post
    German, Caucasian... Religion at this stage is unknown. I'm thinking mental illness.
    Or a SilkAir-like repeat?

    Arrow

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