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Another crash designed for JP forumites.

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  • Another crash designed for JP forumites.



    -An unstabilized approach for Evan.
    -A go-around (who want's to claim that)
    -A stall for Gabriel
    -A human factors error for 3BS
    -"Ancient" steam gauge low-bypass PW JT-something airliner
    -Significant weather and a shorter runway as contributing factors
    -Predates formal CRM
    -Apparently the first fatal crash for the 737.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_553

    -An unstabilized approach for Evan.
    -A go-around (who want's to claim that)
    -A stall for Gabriel
    -A human factors error for 3BS
    -"Ancient" steam gauge low-bypass PW JT-something airliner
    -Significant weather and a shorter runway as contributing factors
    -Predates formal CRM
    -Apparently the first fatal crash for the 737.

    You must be very bored, you are digging back to before you were born for shit to haggle about? Why don't you get a job or something?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      You must be very bored, you are digging back to before you were born for shit to haggle about? Why don't you get a job or something?
      I find these short reads a nice way to take a break from my job. If it bugs you as you take a break from your job, then don't read it.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 3WE View Post
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_553

        -An unstabilized approach for Evan.
        -A go-around (who want's to claim that)
        -A stall for Gabriel
        -A human factors error for 3BS
        -"Ancient" steam gauge low-bypass PW JT-something airliner
        -Significant weather and a shorter runway as contributing factors
        -Predates formal CRM
        -Apparently the first fatal crash for the 737.
        Add:
        - "Dive and drive" type of non-precision approach.
        - Conspiracy theories for Northwestern.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          Add:
          - "Dive and drive" type of non-precision approach.
          All dive and no drive.

          18,000 hours. I give up.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Evan View Post
            18,000 hours * hundreds of thousands of flights = The occasional instance of forgotten spoilers.

            I give up.
            Absolutely sticking words in your mouth but not a jab.

            Try not to give up- BUT, I get the frustration.
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 3WE View Post
              Absolutely sticking words in your mouth but not a jab.

              Try not to give up- BUT, I get the frustration.
              Yes,
              18,000 hours left seat - forgotten spoilers
              10,000 hours right seat - forgotten spoilers
              Plus a flight engineer.
              1,500 fpm at <500ft altitude
              Flap retraction during stickshaker!?
              Analog everything. No 'what's it doing now'. No open descent mode.

              I. Give. The. F. Up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Of course, this is a prime example of modern automation closing a hole in the cheese. It's not going to happen again.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  18,000 hours left seat - forgotten spoilers
                  10,000 hours right seat - forgotten spoilers
                  Plus a flight engineer.
                  1,500 fpm at <500ft altitude
                  Flap retraction during stickshaker!?
                  Might be sub-optimal CRM behind a lot of this...lack of double checking...guys randomly flipping flaps up as they silently run memory items...just speculating.
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    Might be sub-optimal CRM behind a lot of this...lack of double checking...guys randomly flipping flaps up as they silently run memory items...just speculating.
                    Actually just reread that. The PF never brought on GA thrust either. I give. Sounds like a case of brain-blanking stress reaction all around (this is why you do you nice CDFA approach and don't ever get here). As for CRM I wonder if a GA callout was done and I wonder if the PM might have brought the flaps in without the PF knowing it... and I wonder if they were trying to save the approach rather than abandon it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evan View Post
                      .. and I wonder if they were trying to save the approach rather than abandon it.
                      That was my first thought to... until I got to the part of flaps 15.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here check this one out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_Ve...ni_Ca.48_crash

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                          That was my first thought to... until I got to the part of flaps 15.
                          I wonder if the guy in the left seat was trying to salvage the approach while the guy in the right seat was trying to go-around...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                            Originally posted by Wikipedia
                            Eyewitnesses reported that as the airliner passed near the airfield at Verona at an altitude of 3,000 feet (910 m), its wings seemed first to flutter and then to collapse entirely.
                            Cheap composites.
                            Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                            Eric Law

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A different thread:

                              Originally posted by 3WE
                              Cheap composites.
                              Originally posted by elaw View Post
                              I'd be much less worried about composites than failure of the subsystem that resides between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.
                              Originally posted by 3WE
                              I blame the procedures...

                              ...namely, the start engine procedure.

                              The composite thing is just a standing joke. However, I wonder about the whole picture in the design and testing of this thing.
                              This thread:

                              Originally posted by elaw View Post
                              Cheap composites.
                              Originally posted by 3WE
                              I blame the procedures...

                              ...namely, the start engine procedure.

                              The composite thing is just a standing joke. However, I wonder about the whole picture in the design and testing of this thing.
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment

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