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Thread: American 767 incident at ORD - right wing burned severely

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    Default American 767 incident at ORD - right wing burned severely

    An American Airlines 767, N345AN, rolling for takeoff from ORD to MIA as AA 383. The aircraft's right wing and rear fuselage were severely burned. Thankfully, all on board escaped, although it is now understood that six have been taken to local area hospitals and two seriously injured.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/photo/8242852

    The aircraft was one of the newer build American 767s, delivered in 2003.

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    Senior Member B757300's Avatar
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    Thankfully everyone got off. That plane is sadly going to be a write off.


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    Aviation Herald article on this accident:

    http://avherald.com/h?article=49ffa115&opt=0


    Question concerning the linked video: 1'20" video and the aircraft is not yet fully evacuated? Is this too slow? Or a normal evacuation time? (imagine the cabin would be on fire!)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CWPMVdkNN0

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    Senior Member brianw999's Avatar
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    I'm more concerned that some fucking clown gets his phone out and starts filming the evacuation !

    ....and as for the twats grabbing their carry ons !! Jesus Christ, When are these people going to learn that a few seconds can be the difference between living and dying. Don't give me all the shit about "important papers, laptop with work on it, passport". Apart from identifying your body they are of absolutely no use to you when you are dead.
    Last edited by brianw999; 10-29-2016 at 11:49 AM.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


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    Quote Originally Posted by B757300 View Post
    Thankfully everyone got off. That plane is sadly going to be a write off.
    Looking at the photo my first reaction is the same. But... is it possible to replace just one wing? Or are there spars or something that go all the way from one wingtip to the other?
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    looks like the left engine was still on (acoustically) while the back emergency slide was deployed: (video in link)

    https://twitter.com/Kryptonlogic/sta...92732294651904

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    Wow... only 11 seconds between the pilot(s) being informed of fire and initiation of evacuation. That's impressive!

    Yeah I know they're trained to do that etc. but as we all know there have been many instances where the response was not as timely.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    I find the quick rush to judgment of those filming while evacuating or grabbing a handbag from your seat troubling. No one was actually there! Every evacuation drill or live exit experience I've been part of (several), you are always blocked by a moving person in front of you and often you have to wait quite a while to even get into the moving line. You really have nothing to do except slowly move forward or help someone who is having difficulty. A phone (usually carried on the person) in my hand isn't impeding progress, and may actually provide a lot of useful information later. Some items from the seat pocket in front of me, (the size of a small purse) or by my feet (like a jacket) interfere no more than things clipped on my belt and frankly, I'll still move faster than 90% of the people in the plane.

    Now, if you stop and block the isle because you're trying to get into the overhead... that is another story and I am going to yell at you because you are putting others at risk. If you refuse to help someone because you don't want to drop your phone or take it out of your hand, that is also another story, because you are being selfish but I saw no evidence of that. If I was waiting patiently to leave my seat (which everyone except the people immediately by the exits have to do) I am certainly going to grab my jacket and anything else handy and unimpeding while I wait because I have nothing else to do. Those things won't hurt anyone else including myself and on a snowy day, the jacket might even help me or someone else who may end up needing it more.

    It is a bit hypocritical because many people here try to be careful to avoid drawing armchair judgments about pilots knowing they are facing the fog of war, but it seems that passengers rarely get the same consideration.

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    I'm fine with passing judgment. This is a private moment. There are a lot of terrified people here who I am sure do not want their terror captured on video and thrown all over the internet. If you are ever in this situation I trust you will have the decency to not make a public spectacle of it. It's amazing how inconsiderate people have become of their fellow passengers. All they think about is fifteen minutes of social media fame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    Looking at the photo my first reaction is the same. But... is it possible to replace just one wing? Or are there spars or something that go all the way from one wingtip to the other?
    In theory, I would assume you could replace an entire wing as they're built separate and then joined together. That said, there is a lot more damage than just the wing.


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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    Looking at the photo my first reaction is the same. But... is it possible to replace just one wing? Or are there spars or something that go all the way from one wingtip to the other?
    Everything is technically possible. The question is how much it costs. And the answer is typically more than a new airplane minus the spares recovery from the scrapped plane. And remember it is not just the wing. The engine is probably garbage, and all the myriads of systems, wiring, cabling and hoosing must be redone. In the end, it is the insurance company who decides. This one looks very much like a hull loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Everything is technically possible. The question is how much it costs. And the answer is typically more than a new airplane minus the spares recovery from the scrapped plane. And remember it is not just the wing. The engine is probably garbage, and all the myriads of systems, wiring, cabling and hoosing must be redone. In the end, it is the insurance company who decides. This one looks very much like a hull loss.
    Just for reference purposes, the Dynamic 767 that had that spectacle at FLL and suffered a lot less damage than this one is still sitting there untouched. Granted, it's also a much older airframe...

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    Well, I'm pretty sure an insurance underwriter is who has to worry about the disposition of the wreckage. But I find it hard to believe that there are hundreds of parts eligibile for re-use. Is the economics such that even the underwriter doesn't care if nothing gets a second life somewhere. When a plane has to have hurryup fixing to finish a flight, do they always wait for brand new parts from a depot or the factory?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
    I find the quick rush to judgment of those filming while evacuating or grabbing a handbag from your seat troubling. No one was actually there! Every evacuation drill or live exit experience I've been part of (several), you are always blocked by a moving person in front of you and often you have to wait quite a while to even get into the moving line. You really have nothing to do except slowly move forward or help someone who is having difficulty. A phone (usually carried on the person) in my hand isn't impeding progress, and may actually provide a lot of useful information later. Some items from the seat pocket in front of me, (the size of a small purse) or by my feet (like a jacket) interfere no more than things clipped on my belt and frankly, I'll still move faster than 90% of the people in the plane.

    Now, if you stop and block the isle because you're trying to get into the overhead... that is another story and I am going to yell at you because you are putting others at risk. If you refuse to help someone because you don't want to drop your phone or take it out of your hand, that is also another story, because you are being selfish but I saw no evidence of that. If I was waiting patiently to leave my seat (which everyone except the people immediately by the exits have to do) I am certainly going to grab my jacket and anything else handy and unimpeding while I wait because I have nothing else to do. Those things won't hurt anyone else including myself and on a snowy day, the jacket might even help me or someone else who may end up needing it more.

    It is a bit hypocritical because many people here try to be careful to avoid drawing armchair judgments about pilots knowing they are facing the fog of war, but it seems that passengers rarely get the same consideration.
    ...and the video seems to show what you describe: Calm, orderly and NOT rushed.

    Yeah, sure, 'we' should discourage grabbing personal items, and there are times when smoke and fire 'fill' the cabin... when grabbing anything but your infant child or spouse is bad.

    But sometimes, there's no impact from grabbing the laptop, when the odds are huge that you'll lose it to fire, or more likely face a week delay for the 'officials' to get it to you.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    Wow... only 11 seconds between the pilot(s) being informed of fire and initiation of evacuation. That's impressive!

    Yeah I know they're trained to do that etc. but as we all know there have been many instances where the response was not as timely.

    My understanding is that its a judgment call...

    ...if it was only 11 seconds, something makes me think there was a really big sucking meat grinder spooling down next to one of the slides (the reason often given as to why the crew makes folks sit a minute or so)

    Of course, that's where some of our forumites expose their double standard and would grossly violate procedure and pop the exit, while strongly endorsing the procedure to leave carry on effects behind.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I'm fine with passing judgment. This is a private moment. There are a lot of terrified people here who I am sure do not want their terror captured on video and thrown all over the internet. If you are ever in this situation I trust you will have the decency to not make a public spectacle of it. It's amazing how inconsiderate people have become of their fellow passengers. All they think about is fifteen minutes of social media fame.
    Good point Evan, but privacy (i.e. publishing the video) is a question distinct from recording it, and people are complaining about those recording. I agree with you, privacy should be honoured, even if it trades off with public good. I believe the viewing of these things provide public benefit, but if there are privacy concerns those should override the public good.

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    An “uncontained engine failure” caused a fire that ended with the aborted takeoff of an American Airlines plane at O’Hare International Airport, federal officials said Saturday.

    Lorenda Ward, senior investigator in charge with the National Transportation Safety Board, told reporters though no fire breached the cabin of Flight 383, the uncontained engine failure resulted in fuel pooling under the plane’s right wing, which then caught fire.

    About 20 people on the plane were taken to local hospitals with non-life-threatening injuries, and all had been discharged as of Saturday evening, Ward said.

    She added that an examination of one of the plane’s engines found a piece of the turbine had failed.

    One piece of the engine was found in a UPS warehouse about 2,900 feet away from the plane, Ward said. Another piece was found about 1,600 feet away, but it was still on O’Hare property, she added.
    http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/unc...eoff-at-ohare/

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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    I am not so sure about privacy... As an example, when you fly a drone with a camera, the FAA requires that you do not do so over places where people has a reasonable expectation of privacy. I doubt that an airplane cabin qualifies as such. You just should not expect privacy if you are in a public place.

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    the uncontained engine failure resulted in fuel pooling under the plane’s right wing, which then caught fire.
    I always wondered whether it would be safer to keep rolling at a low speed (say 20 kts) waiting for the firetrucks to arrive to avoid such a pool of fuel and strong localized fire under the plane. Check the explosion that happened in the FedEx plane. Imagine that being the center wing tank. On the other hand, you are delaying the evacuation. Tough risk balance.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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