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  • Cargo airplane collapsed in Kyrgyzstan

    Bishkek, Jan. 16 / Kabar /. Cargo airplane collapsed in Kyrgyzstan due to poor visibility because of thick mist, the sources of Manas airport told Kabar Agency.
    The airplane Boeing 747, the flight # 6491 heading to Bishkek from Hong Kong collapsed outskirts of the capital city of Kyrgyzstan on Monday early morning. the plane was to be landed at 7.20 am at Manas airport, the source said.


    http://kabar.kg/eng/society/full/18035



    Very sad news.


    More updates about the crash with photos:

    This was the flight: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...k6491/#c2d9d64

    Click image for larger version

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    This was the airplane:
    TC-MCL: http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos....-MCL&view=true

    Turkish cargo plane crashes nearby Manas airport

    16/01/17 05:39, Bishkek – 24.kg news agency,

    Turkish cargo plane crashed when approaching to landing today at about 7.10 a.m. close to Manas airport.

    According to preliminary information, the cargo aircraft did not reach the runway.

    Attached Files
    Last edited by ErezS; 2017-01-16, 05:42. Reason: More info.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ErezS View Post
    ...According to preliminary information, the cargo aircraft did not reach the runway...
    According to AvHerald, the plane crashed BEYOND the runway after failing to climb in a go-around attempt.

    IF true, my unsubstantiated parlour speculation would want to know about potential icing, or a significant systems problem.

    ...or it could just be an old fashioned botched approach/go-around in hard IMC.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

    Comment


    • #3
      First Question: Did the aircraft actually touch down on the runway?
      Second Question: Did the crew attempt an automatic go-around after touching down without manually advancing the thrust and adding pitch?
      Third Question: Was this autoland? Did the crew attempt to abandon an autoland approach after ROLLOUT capture without manual pitch input?
      Fourth Question: Was the aircraft ever below 5' RA long enough to inhibit the GA switches?

      The last-moment go-around pitfalls of the 747-400 are in many ways similar to those of the 777. Emirates Flight 521 comes to mind...

      Comment


      • #4
        From a statement from ACT Airlines:

        Captain has a total of 10,821 flight hours of which 833 hours are on B744. Our First Officer has a total of 5910 flight hours of which 1771 hours are on B744.
        And how many go-arounds on the B747? That's not much on-type experience, and it leads me to speculate...

        Comment


        • #5
          approximately 37 died including 20 natives. In this crash, the plane deviated from the runway due to heavy fog and resulted in colliding with the village houses near airport.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Evan View Post
            ...Did the crew attempt an automatic go-around after touching down without manually advancing the thrust and adding pitch...
            Oh, the ironing.

            ...and you wonder why I worry that fundamental knowledge might sometimes times suffer at the expense of multiple, situationally-specific, insidious, cryptic procedures (when not all pilots are International Super Geniuses)...
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • #7
              Bishkek can be challenging when the weather is good! Not the best controllers in the world, BIG ass mountains close to the airport and then there is the QFE QNH thing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                Bishkek can be challenging when the weather is good! Not the best controllers in the world, BIG ass mountains close to the airport and then there is the QFE QNH thing.
                Apparently they managed to climb during the go-around but then they lost speed.
                Speculation around the web ranges from load shift during GA to forgetting to set GA thrust to icing.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  First Question: Did the aircraft actually touch down on the runway?
                  Apparently not.

                  Fourth Question: Was the aircraft ever below 5' RA long enough to inhibit the GA switches?
                  Apparently not.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    Oh, the ironing.

                    ...and you wonder why I worry that fundamental knowledge might sometimes times suffer at the expense of multiple, situationally-specific, insidious, cryptic procedures (when not all pilots are International Super Geniuses)...
                    What? What's wrong with the automatic manual go around? Next thing you'll tell me that you never heard of the automatic manual gearbox.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hugh View Post
                      In this crash, the plane deviated from the runway due to heavy fog and resulted in colliding with the village houses near airport.
                      1- What does it mean the plane deviated due to the heavy fog? Was the heavy fog pushing hard or what? Makes no sense.
                      2- In any event, it doesn't seem to be what happened. The plane crashed AFTER the runway (not before it) after starting a go-around.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        ...What's wrong with the automatic manual go around?...
                        On this very forum (Aviation safety), I seem to recall one ATL-Crew and Boeing Bobby both stating that they sort of liked to "just manually go around", as 1) the fundamentals vs. procedures were pretty straight forward and 2) that it gave you one serious-ass dose of situational awareness...(not their exact words, but my interpretation of what they said).

                        You need to monitor the instruments & general situation in both cases, but the word "need" is maybe a couple of magnitudes different in it's importance?
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                          On this very forum (Aviation safety), I seem to recall one ATL-Crew and Boeing Bobby both stating that they sort of liked to "just manually go around", as 1) the fundamentals vs. procedures were pretty straight forward and 2) that it gave you one serious-ass dose of situational awareness...(not their exact words, but my interpretation of what they said).

                          You need to monitor the instruments & general situation in both cases, but the word "need" is maybe a couple of magnitudes different in it's importance?
                          ....and yet, history has shown us that the too forceful application of thrust and/or the too aggressive application of pitch tends to bring about the same tragic results.

                          At the risk of stating what has been stated a million times already, under autoflight, the automation is there to fly the plane and the pilot is there to make sure it does that correctly, monitoring the situation and jumping in when needed. You don't hit the GA switches and flip open a comic book. The crew of Emirates Flight 521 should have seen (as required by procedure) that there was no thrust response and advanced it manually. That's basic airmanship in the modern world.

                          What we do know is that this crew probably had little or no real-world experience with go-around from low altitude in the B747. Maybe it was load shift or ice-related but that factor is weighing my speculation toward pilot error.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [Apparently this was either the 2nd or 3rd landing attempt.

                            Attached isa photo of the a/c about a week ago (CREDIT: Kelvin Jahae - https://www.flickr.com/photos/100099...7/32113413202/)Click image for larger version

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                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by obmot View Post
                              [Apparently this was either the 2nd or 3rd landing attempt.
                              Source?

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