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Thread: Cargo airplane collapsed in Kyrgyzstan

  1. #61
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe Garcia View Post
    His testimony before Congress, regarding the 1500 hour minimum.
    http://www.sullysullenberger.com/my-...-and-security/

    He didn't directly praise himself, but he did praise his copilot. However, mentioned at the beginning about his hours and accomplishments.
    And by the way... "I have served as a pilot for more than 40 years, logging more than 20,000 hours of flight experience."

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I have to admit that's more than what I expected. How is your typical trip / week, and how many weeks per year are you off work, if you don't mind sharing?
    Just want to check which one of my assumptions is wrong with you.



    Yup. 8 per day, 30 per week (and one day off), 100 per month, 1000 per year.

    My typical monthly pattern is 70 - 80 hours a month. That is with 13 days off in a 30 day month, and 14 days off in a 31 day month. I get 3 weeks vacation per year.

  3. #63
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    The point i'm trying to make is that 10,000 hours of bad habit piloting experience (in which you've always gotten away with it because 99.9999% of the time those fatal contributing factors aren't present) is worse than 100 hours of bad habit experience. The more flight hours a pilot with poor airmanship or CRM discipline has, the more confident the pilot is in his complacency, the more ingrained those bad habits become, the greater the risk.

    I think hours mean something up to about 1000-1500 hours on type. I want the PIC to have that if possible. But beyond that, total hours are a poor way of judging how reliable a pilot is.

    Hours of training is what matters. And the quality of those hours.
    My response to your post was intended to be both factual and acknowledgement of your point that one can log hours and not gain experience and/or gain complacency.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    BB, how many flight hours do you log in an average year?

    "Just want to check which one of my assumptions is wrong with you."


    What were you assuming?

  5. #65
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    "Just want to check which one of my assumptions is wrong with you."


    What were you assuming?
    How many hours per year a professional pilot might typically log. You know, you actually do it vs. we outsiders just parlour talking.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    How many hours per year a professional pilot might typically log. You know, you actually do it vs. we outsiders just parlour talking.
    Like I told Gabe, We are limited by the FAA to 1000 hours in 365 days. I am told by my Alaska friends that they get special dispensation and can fly 1200.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    "Just want to check which one of my assumptions is wrong with you."


    What were you assuming?
    This, in a previous post:

    You take the LH flight to Buenos Aires Monday night. That's a 12 / 13 hours flight. Half of that + 1 hour will be flight time for each of the 2 full crews. That's less than your 8 hours, but just for the sake of it let's take 8 hours. So you arrive Tuesday morning. Do you really think that the same crews will fly the Tuesday night flight back to Munich? No! They will fly the Wednesday night flight (another 8 hours) and will arrive to Munich Thursday morning, and then take the Friday night to Buenos Aires (another 8 hours) arriving Saturday morning, and Sunday will be their day off so they will take the Monday night flight back to Munich and the cycle repeats (only that now in the opposite direction). This is simplified, since a crew will not typically fly the same legs always, but just to give an idea, we had 3 x 8 hours flight time per week. The year has 52 weeks, but remove 6 weeks for vacation and training, and you are left with 46 weeks, and 46 x 8 = 368 hours per year.
    On a related note, how long (years) did you take to reach the 10K hours mark?

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  8. #68
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    Like I told Gabe, We are limited by the FAA to 1000 hours in 365 days. I am told by my Alaska friends that they get special dispensation and can fly 1200.
    But my assumption is that long-haul pilots never (ok 3we, rarely, so we avoid absolute statements) come close to the 1000 hours limit.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  9. #69
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    ...3we...avoid absolute statements...
    Indeed,...and then Bobby mentions Alaska...
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    This, in a previous post:



    On a related note, how long (years) did you take to reach the 10K hours mark?

    I really do not remember.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    But my assumption is that long-haul pilots never (ok 3we, rarely, so we avoid absolute statements) come close to the 1000 hours limit.

    In the 18 years I have been at Atlas, I have known about 3 pilots and a half dozen flight engineers in the old days that timed out in late November and early December. They got a month/month and a half off with pay. The most I have ever flown here is in the mid 900's the year before last.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    My typical monthly pattern is 70 - 80 hours a month. That is with 13 days off in a 30 day month, and 14 days off in a 31 day month. I get 3 weeks vacation per year.
    With 18 years of seniority you only get 13 days off? Or this just a case of a few ex-wives too many?

  13. #73
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    With 18 years of seniority you only get 13 days off? Or this just a case of a few ex-wives too many?
    13 days off every month. That's too few? (plus 3 weeks vacations)

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  14. #74
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    http://nypost.com/2017/01/16/dozens-...zstan-airport/
    Conforming to preliminary clue, the plane crashed due to a pilot inaccuracy,
    ”Deputy Prime Minister Muhammetkaly Abulgaziev said on state TV,
    Agence France-Presse reported.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    With 18 years of seniority you only get 13 days off? Or this just a case of a few ex-wives too many?
    Sorry to say that our fabulous contract has them owning us for 17 days a month. And no only one of those for over 40 years.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    13 days off every month. That's too few? (plus 3 weeks vacations)
    Yes.

  17. #77
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    Yes.
    Aside from being paid to operate an aircraft, the 'days off' have always seemed an attractive aspect to this outsider...but then again, you lose quite a few of them commuting and hanging out in luxurious crash pads...so I read...
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Aside from being paid to operate an aircraft, the 'days off' have always seemed an attractive aspect to this outsider...but then again, you lose quite a few of them commuting and hanging out in luxurious crash pads...so I read...
    Also yes.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Aside from being paid to operate an aircraft, the 'days off' have always seemed an attractive aspect to this outsider...but then again, you lose quite a few of them commuting and hanging out in luxurious crash pads...so I read...
    Unlike ATL, Atlas although not the best, buys you a hotel at every overnight, we have gateway basing so no crash pads, buys you a ticket to and from your gateway, business class tickets on all international flights, and we are catered on every flight.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    Unlike ATL, Atlas although not the best, buys you a hotel at every overnight, we have gateway basing so no crash pads, buys you a ticket to and from your gateway, business class tickets on all international flights, and we are catered on every flight.
    I wasn't aware there were still airlines who DIDN'T pay for hotels on overnights. Apart from an occasional late-running van, I've had almost no issues at all with our hotels. If anything, some of them are, in my opinion, a little too nice.

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