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Thread: Is it time to ground Hans Solo?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Yes.

    I am thinking that Indi's future flying will involve a CFI acting as PIC...It IS a significant error and violation.

    But please take a peek at my photo of Flyover International when it was a hub for some airline (Can't remember their name, but their initials were TWA). The ATIS quote I list is evidence to me that Harrison Ford is not the first, nor last person (and not all of them are old) to land on the wrong strip of pavement.

    AND, I have to admit...those last several seconds of dealing with winds and bank and speed and the approach of the not-so-mushy mother earth probably lead me to a decent bit of tunnel vision...and without an official PM.
    I didn't emit one single opinion or comment regarding Mr Ford's mistake. All my intervention in this thread was limited to factual information:
    - There is no age limit for GA pilots.
    - A Google Earth screenshot to show the environment where the incident happened.
    - And the fact that Mr Ford's approach was not a 3-degree one (in defense from your accusation that there was one serous fault with Gabe's picture).

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  2. #22
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    Is it me or does his approach also look very steep? Maybe he was more focused on getting the a/c slowed down and flaring than the picture outside the cockpit.
    The approach was very steep compared with a 3-degree approach, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he was coming in too fast.
    It is quite common with small GA airplanes to do "no power" approaches (with the engine in idle), and the glide ratio of all small GA airplanes is quite worse than 3-degree (which would be 20:1), especially with flaps out. One instructor made me ALWAYS cut the throttle when in tail wind passing abeam of the numbers, and do the rest of the tailwind, base leg and final all without adding power (unless I screwed up and power became necessary to reach the runway). His argument was that in this way, by making every approach and landing a power-off landing, I would be more ready if the power ever really goes off.

    I have to say, because you cannot stretch the glide beyond best glide, but you can worsen it, I tried always to be high in short final. Then I would add full flaps and make an up to full-rudder-deflection side-slip. Much more common than needing power to reach the runway, the outcome was typically one of those very steep final approaches and yet, I would touch down long. If you think this approach was steep, you would be horrified with one of mine.

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  3. #23
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    ***I didn't emit one single opinion or comment***
    Indeed...and you are no fun.

    Seriously- I wish you would engage beyond just offering factual information...this is a discussion forum.

    While I think Mr. Ford made a mistake that should carry significant consequences, I cannot discount that others have not made the similar mistakes...Landing a 737 on a <4000 ft runway...it was night, but there were ILS's and magenta lines and all sorts of good things that should have made it almost as clear as you photo.

    Would it kill you to look at runway 13 and comment?

    AND for those concerned with the steepness of the approach, I offer this (a repeat for some): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MSIKE38wvE
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    I don't have an opinion about Ford's incident. It might have been a good pilot with a random "oh shit" moment as it can happen to anyone (favored by tunnel vision, fixation and confirmation bias), it might be that he is just a bad pilot that doesn't check and crosscheck the information available, it might be some health or age issue.

    Regarding your runway 13, that is more delicate. If you are cleared to land in 12L, you are naturally going to look for the left-most runway in that direction. With what I see in your picture, one might think that 12L is 12R and 13 is 12L. The fact that 12R and 12L are white cement (the same than the taxiways) and 13 is balck asphalt may add to the confusion. The higher contrast will naturally call your attention. I don't know why they didn't call them 12R, 12C and 12L. I think that if you are cleared for 12C, you are more unlikely to land at 12L (13) by mistake. Of course that removing 13 from the equation (making it a taxiway with yellow lines instead of white, no numbers, etc...) also helps not landing in that taxiway when cleared to 12L, even when it didn't work for Harris.

    Happy now?

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    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  5. #25
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    The Force was with him. The FAA closed the case without imposing any punishment.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  6. #26
    Super Moderator brianw999's Avatar
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    ...and with that last comment I think we can also close this thread.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  7. #27
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Thank you for unlocking...

    So, I am surprised at the FAA (lack of) action. Seems as though there should have been some sort of symbolic hand slapping as it seems like an awfully bad mistake.

    [EDIT: And I was reminded in some other reading that this is incident #4 for Mr. Harrison- he does have quite the record of bending rules and metal both]

    And I would wonder if Mr. Ford made some sort of agreement to fly with a safety pilot from now on.

    I do not wish to beat the man to death (and it doesn't appear he is being beaten to death...at least not too much).

    Unfortunately age does have an effect on reaction time and cognitive function...that's a little bit important to operate an aircraft.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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