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Thread: Something fun for a change.

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    Default Something fun for a change.


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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby
    ...Something fun...
    My first thought *was* "Dear God, what an UGLY airplane.

    My second thought *is* Indeed, fun!

    Nicely done video!

    I am sure there is much use of autopilots and RNAV for all of this.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    My first thought *was* "Dear God, what an UGLY airplane.
    Perhaps they're using the same lift-increasing trick helicopters use, where the aircraft is so ugly the earth repels it?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    My second thought *is* Indeed, fun!
    Concur.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    I am sure there is much use of autopilots and RNAV for all of this.
    And stabilized approaches... always.

    But just wait until Evan becomes aware that those bodies of water don't have ILSs and declares them unsafe.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post

    But just wait until Evan becomes aware that those bodies of water don't have ILSs and declares them unsafe.
    Actually, it's this that worries me:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Actually, it's this that worries me:

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    ROTFL. Hey, they had half their margin left!

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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
    ROTFL. Hey, they had half their margin left!
    Define "margin" in this context.
    For me, the margin is over when the stall warning starts, since at that point a recovery is required.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Actually, it's this that worries me:

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    What I find amusing is that indicator is divided into 5 different zones!

    Let's speculate as to what they're called:
    • Fine

    • Not fine

    • Really not fine

    • No, seriously, I'm not kidding, this is not okay

    • You're dead
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
    ROTFL. Hey, they had half their margin left!
    Watch the video and see the rate that needle is moving toward "brick". That completely accurate and dependable needle...

    No doubt these are ace pilots. I'm sure they could 401 it too, no problem. Besides, life is short anyway and $40M is a small price to pay for a rare moment of pure exhilaration.

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Watch the video and see the rate that needle is moving toward "brick". That completely accurate and dependable needle...
    ...your next sentence is indeed good.

    And, know what, I bet a beer that they aren't paying much attention to your (and Gabriels ) needle. (Head exploding yet?)

    Instead, I bet they are focused on the view out the window, their rear ends, the airspeed indicator and their significant experience and maybe...just maybe...mentally listening for a stall warning...Ok, fine, I'll give you and Gabe a concession that maybe they might give the AOA indicator a quick glance...

    But, at the end of the day, it's called airmanship.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    What I find amusing is that indicator is divided into 5 different zones!

    Let's speculate as to what they're called:
    • Fine
    ===> Low AoA - This is ok and normal operation
    • Not fine
    ===> Desired Slow Flight AoA (best climb, approach...) - This is ok and normal operation
    • Really not fine
    ===> Too slow flight AoA: You should not be flying in this zone, however, although this is not normal operation, you are still ok and you can operate here (for example, if you are in a windshear escape maneuver, you can stay in this zone, or during the flare or initial lift-off you can be temporarily here while you bleed speed for touchdown or build speed to climb speed)
    • No, seriously, I'm not kidding, this is not okay
    ===> Stall warning. You are not authorized to fly in this regime. You are outside the approved envelope and are required to take corrective action.
    • You're dead ===> You are stalled.
    .

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  11. #11
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Define "margin" in this context.
    For me, the margin is over when the stall warning starts, since at that point a recovery is required.
    Recovery is not required until you are almost going to hit the ground...(+ a little safety buffer, of course)
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Default FAO: Boeing Bobby

    The man posts a beautiful YouTube...

    ...and what do the parlour-talking ass-hats do?

    We ruin the thread.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    The man posts a beautiful YouTube...

    ...and what do the parlour-talking ass-hats do?

    We ruin the thread.
    Well, it serves him right for posting it in the parlour-talking aviation safety forum.

    But we tend to overreact. I mean, you've got REALLY GOOD pilots there, instinctive airmanship, with a REALLY GOOD airplane. Throw in an audience, let them show off a bit, what could go wrong.......?

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    REALLY GOOD pilots don't try to make their airplanes do things they're incapable of.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    ...instinctive...
    No, although that fits your home base that it's just a bunch of reckless abandon.

    Instead, it's more about finely honed skill combined with good situational awareness.

    Quote Originally Posted by elaw
    REALLY GOOD pilots don't try to make their airplanes do things they're incapable of.
    Indeed!, Concur!, and Exactly!

    Skills and situational awareness, including limitations.

    Footnote: Instinct is: "We're STILL falling, so I should pull up MORE"
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Default FAO: Gabriel

    I note the word "Slow" on Evan's photo.

    Does that mean that a stall is caused by flying too slow?
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    REALLY GOOD pilots don't try to make their airplanes do things they're incapable of.
    Sometimes they do. The Elmendorf C-17 Air Force investigation called it "overconfidence" and "misplaced motivation". The investigation found that the pilot's overconfidence in executing an aggressive right-turn maneuver led to a low-altitude stall and subsequent crash, despite the warnings correctly provided by the aircraft's stall-warning system, to which neither the pilot nor any other crew member responded effectively.

    Even good pilots are sometimes vulnerable to overconfidence and "misplaced motivation"...

    Like these Spanish hotshots, I tend to think...

  18. #18
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    ...good pilots...Spanish hotshots...it's just a bunch of reckless abandon.
    Fixed.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    I note the word "Slow" on Evan's photo.

    Does that mean that a stall is caused by flying too slow?
    Also.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    It's actually pretty ironic that 3 of the 5 colored regions on that gauge are marked with speeds, even though the gauge is there to provide better information that should relieve the pilot from having to view stall as something that is only speed-dependent.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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