Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Broad Electronics Ban

  1. #1
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,014

    Default Broad Electronics Ban

    Interesting.

    I thought it was already 'decided' that it was preferable to make everyone BYOT and then the airline only has to worry about keeping a couple of Wi-Fi routers working instead of 200 screens. Plus there might be weight savings as I-pads get thinner and lighter.

    Conversely, who'd trust Li batteries anyway...

    http://mashable.com/2017/03/20/royal.../#Vb7LYmbXjPql

    Note: Discussions of "why" seem notably lacking. Off to get some Reynolds wrap and make a hat.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    684

    Default

    Why? Trump.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

  3. #3
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    Why? Trump.
    Something's afoot. Authorities have known about the threat since that terrorist blew himself out of the aircraft in Somalia (last year?). I think the threat is legit but why only these points of origin? I doubt anyone has better security than the emirates and anyone from a high-risk nation can simply board a connecting flight to Paris or Amsterdam or anywhere else for that matter.

    It smells of Trump...

  4. #4
    Member BoeingBobby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    916

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Something's afoot. Authorities have known about the threat since that terrorist blew himself out of the aircraft in Somalia (last year?). I think the threat is legit but why only these points of origin? I doubt anyone has better security than the emirates and anyone from a high-risk nation can simply board a connecting flight to Paris or Amsterdam or anywhere else for that matter.

    It smells of Trump...

    As they say. Stinks to high heaven!

  5. #5
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Something's afoot. Authorities have known about the threat since that terrorist blew himself out of the aircraft in Somalia (last year?). I think the threat is legit but why only these points of origin? I doubt anyone has better security than the emirates and anyone from a high-risk nation can simply board a connecting flight to Paris or Amsterdam or anywhere else for that matter.

    It smells of Trump...
    Today there were articles with a tad more information- that explosives could be placed in laptops (ref the Somolia incident). Ironingly, I remember a time period when you had to turn on your laptop for the TSA...and since then, I assumed that protocols and more advanced x-ray thingies were able to detect bad stuff.

    ...and yes, a list of countries that I think are on Trump's terrorist-hot-bed list...

    IF it's Trump, quite the execution..."the story" was that OTHER airlines had enacted it...and then US folks followed suit.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    684

    Default

    Well, much as I enjoy picking on Trump, it appears the brits have followed suit.

    So maybe the ban is somehow reality-based after all?

    I wonder if there's something different about the explosives or technology being used (or suspected so). After all, explosives in consumer electronics have been a thing for quite a while now* so presumably something has changed.

    * I mean "aftermarket" explosives... not the ones they put in cellphones, laptops, hoverboards, etc. at the factory.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    at 1,600 metres
    Posts
    1,275

    Default

    I wonder if the EgyptAir MS804 investigation had anything to do with this announcement.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,260

    Default

    But MS804 departed FROM Paris, and thus not one of the origin airports in question. I think part of the issue here, not really in the public domain, is that western authorities don't have confidence in the security capability of certain airports.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HalcyonDays View Post
    But MS804 departed FROM Paris, and thus not one of the origin airports in question. I think part of the issue here, not really in the public domain, is that western authorities don't have confidence in the security capability of certain airports.
    Again, this makes no sense. FIrstly, some of the banned destinations have the best security reputations in the world. Secondly, a would-be terrorist can simply get a connecting flight to a non-banned airport. Thirdly, the issue here is that airport security capabilities are not sufficient to detect the threat ANYWHERE. Fourthly, the US ALREADY bans ALL flights from airports with questionable security in place.

    So why is this not a worldwide ban for ALL flights to the US and UK?

    This is a real threat, but the response is politically distorted.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Again, this makes no sense. FIrstly, some of the banned destinations have the best security reputations in the world. Secondly, a would-be terrorist can simply get a connecting flight to a non-banned airport. Thirdly, the issue here is that airport security capabilities are not sufficient to detect the threat ANYWHERE. Fourthly, the US ALREADY bans ALL flights from airports with questionable security in place.

    So why is this not a worldwide ban for ALL flights to the US and UK?

    This is a real threat, but the response is politically distorted.
    Who's to say that origin airports for flights to the US are not questionable ? The issue is not those countries as destinations but as departure points, with their associated security. That's been an assumption in the past, and certainly some inbound carriers do have to make an additional security stop. But assessments change, information changes, and I have a strong sense that there are, and have been, doubts about security protocols at certain airports, coupled maybe (and I don't know this for sure, of course) with new fears on terrorist skills. Of course, a terrorist could still find another route, another airport, but the presumption is that such airport has a sufficiently robust level of security which would uncover what they're looking for. Terrorists often work in teams, and overcoming possible infiltration is one of the major fears in certain locales.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HalcyonDays View Post
    but the presumption is that such airport has a sufficiently robust level of security which would uncover what they're looking for.
    How? The official reports noted that there have been advancements in using low-metallic content plastic explosives in the guise of batteries in battery compartments. How are these detected? Many laptops today have multiple batteries and some are not removeable. They can certainly configure this so that the machine turns on and functions normally, and even reports full battery charge. So what's the plan to detect these, and is it in place in airports other than the ones listed on the ban? Cuz if it isn't, this makes very little sense...

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,260

    Default

    All that may well be true, I'm sure. I come back to the point that, while security procedures may theoretically be identical and reliable in every airport, would you like to rely on that in practice in certain named airports, especially if intelligence was pointing to the possibility of new risks ?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HalcyonDays View Post
    All that may well be true, I'm sure. I come back to the point that, while security procedures may theoretically be identical and reliable in every airport, would you like to rely on that in practice in certain named airports, especially if intelligence was pointing to the possibility of new risks ?
    I wouldn't rely on that at ANY airports. That's the point. Why only ban laptops from a handful of possible boarding points, especially when some of those boarding points have the world's best security in place. Why not ban from all of them? You know what would have happened on Sept, 11th 2001 if the terrorists had tried to board flights from Dubai or Riyadh with knives on them? Nothing.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I wouldn't rely on that at ANY airports. That's the point. Why only ban laptops from a handful of possible boarding points, especially when some of those boarding points have the world's best security in place. Why not ban from all of them? You know what would have happened on Sept, 11th 2001 if the terrorists had tried to board flights from Dubai or Riyadh with knives on them? Nothing.
    Indeed, why not ban from all of them ? Isn't that exactly the point ?

    Of course, there continue to be other kinds of threats, and systems may (reliably or not) remain in place to deal with all of hem, necessarily so. But newly identified threats demand urgent mitigation, however imperfect short-term. What is going on at those airport ?

    I'm not above believing that there may be commercial/protectionist motivations which certain US authorities may see as secondarily advantageous to the economic support of American carriers. Nonethrless, the usually more level-headed British are on board with this too.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I wouldn't rely on that at ANY airports. That's the point. Why only ban laptops from a handful of possible boarding points, especially when some of those boarding points have the world's best security in place. Why not ban from all of them? You know what would have happened on Sept, 11th 2001 if the terrorists had tried to board flights from Dubai or Riyadh with knives on them? Nothing.
    Indeed, why not ban from all of them ? Isn't that exactly the point ?

    Of course, there continue to be other kinds of threats, and systems may (reliably or not) remain in place to deal with all of them, necessarily so. But newly identified threats demand urgent mitigation, however imperfect short-term. What is going on at those airports ?

    I'm not above believing that there may be commercial/protectionist motivations which certain US authorities may see as secondarily advantageous to the economic support of American carriers. Nonetheless, the usually more level-headed British are on board with this too.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HalcyonDays View Post
    I'm not above believing that there may be commercial/protectionist motivations which certain US authorities may see as secondarily advantageous to the economic support of American carriers. Nonetheless, the usually more level-headed British are on board with this too.
    I'm not really believing this is politically motivated. I'm thinking it is the mediocre Homeland Security minds going up against very crafty, diabolical terrorist minds, who would obviously just circumvent the ban by boarding at airport that is not on the banned list. I'm saying it is the usual moronic response. If a threat does exist, they need to ban these everywhere until they have a plan to deal with them.

  17. #17
    Member LH-B744's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    1 hr away from EDDL
    Posts
    991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    As they say. Stinks to high heaven!
    Wow. With Gabriel, I agree once a year. Should the new year become a good year so that I am even able to agree with you once a year?! I'd really appreciate that.

    I can tell you what I thought in the second after Trump swore the oath. This Donald is able and also bans German airlines from US-American airports.

    It hasn't happened yet. So let's discuss it again when it has become true.

    Btw, do you have a list that contains the airlines and the airports which are concerned since this thursday?

    PS: 'The Guardian' (London, UK) names a full list of 10 airports, but that list is partly misspelled and without the ICAO airport codes. So, this is the list, with ICAO airport codes:
    1. OJAI Queen Alia airport
    2. HECA Cairo International
    3. LTBA Istanbul-Atatürk
    4. OEJN Jeddah King Abdulaziz
    5. OERK Riyadh airport
    6. OKBK Kuwait
    7. GMMN Casablanca Mohammed V airport, Morocco
    8. OTBD Doha International
    9. OMDB Dubai International (with a ban), and OMDW Al Maktoum without a ban?
    10. OMAA Abu Dhabi International.
    Last edited by LH-B744; 03-23-2017 at 10:48 PM. Reason: We shouldn't expect experience, concerning US (foreign) policy!
    Health is the most important thing in life.
    Not the matter if you are 18, 38 or 58 years old.

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years.

  18. #18
    Member LH-B744's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    1 hr away from EDDL
    Posts
    991

    Default

    So. What happens if one of these codes appear in your fmc as a destination or an origin?!

    That's a very good question. It concerns at least the following airlines: Air Canada, Air France, Air India, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, KLM, Lufthansa, Qantas,
    et cetera et cetera.

    What the hell is the plan of the Donald?
    Health is the most important thing in life.
    Not the matter if you are 18, 38 or 58 years old.

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator brianw999's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tunbridge Wells, Kent. UK.
    Posts
    11,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    ?.............. You know what would have happened on Sept, 11th 2001 if the terrorists had tried to board flights from Dubai or Riyadh with knives on them? Nothing.
    Yup, happened to me. I travelled from Yanbu, Saudia Arabia to Jeddah and then onward to Amsterdam with a bloody great 8 inch divers knife in my hand baggage. I was innocently thinking about it being dive equipment and not a weapon as I also had all my other SCUBA gear in another bag in the hold. I was travelling on to London.
    Nobody questioned me until Schiphol where I was politely but firmly invited to closely examine the pattern on the wall in security ! Even then, after some questioning I was still allowed to continue with the knife in my hand baggage. This was however well before 9/11.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  20. #20
    Member LH-B744's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    1 hr away from EDDL
    Posts
    991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    [...] well before 9/11.
    These were the words that I was waitin for. If you hadn't mentioned the words, I was also sure about the date for your story. Before 9/11, the planet was different.

    Before 9/11, True Lies was only a Schwarzenegger film. With a fast jet near an office in the... 41st floor. But still fiction. Before 9/11, I knew at least 6 or 7 independent international US Airlines. TWA, CO, US Airways, United, American, NorthWest, Braniff (747, completely in orange, long gone), let me think about it another 5 minutes and I reach 10..

    Francis Underwood (Kevin Spacey) was also fiction. Until the beginning of this year, when reality surpassed fiction ...
    Health is the most important thing in life.
    Not the matter if you are 18, 38 or 58 years old.

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •