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Thread: Han Solo Closed Thread.

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Default Han Solo Closed Thread.

    Ummm...a thread closure? I see just about zero consistency in that...I think there may be a few more valid comments to be made about Mr. Harrison.

    Did he verbally agree to hang it up...(or verbally agree to have another licensed pilot alongside...something...)

    Please- delete this thread if you must, but to shut down a thread when the vast vast vast majority of other threads are open for further discussion...and when there are probably a few critical additional details to be shared and discussed?

    ...seriously.

    While I know that the FAA sometimes wants to seem like nice guys with no special need to run around busting people and yanking licenses...I am very surprised at this outcome...the screw up - albeit possibly a classic, old fashioned brain-fart- seems a bit on the large side for 'nothing' to come of it.
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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Ummm...a thread closure? I see just about zero consistency in that...I think there may be a few more valid comments to be made about Mr. Harrison.

    Did he verbally agree to hang it up...(or verbally agree to have another licensed pilot alongside...something...)

    Please- delete this thread if you must, but to shut down a thread when the vast vast vast majority of other threads are open for further discussion...and when there are probably a few critical additional details to be shared and discussed?

    ...seriously.

    While I know that the FAA sometimes wants to seem like nice guys with no special need to run around busting people and yanking licenses...I am very surprised at this outcome...the screw up - albeit possibly a classic, old fashioned brain-fart- seems a bit on the large side for 'nothing' to come of it.
    http://www.infobae.com/america/eeuu/...-una-tragedia/

    "La FAA llevó a cabo una investigación completa sobre el asunto, incluida una entrevista con el señor Ford, y determinó que no se justificaba ninguna acción administrativa o coercitiva. El señor Ford mantiene su certificado de piloto sin restricción. Al cerrar el caso, la agencia reconoció el largo historial de Ford en su cumplimiento de las regulaciones federales de aviación y su actitud de cooperación durante la investigación."

    And Brian, FWIW, I agree with 3we.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    Super Moderator brianw999's Avatar
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    OK then, carry on attacking Mr Ford if you must...because really, basically that's all that there is left to do. There's nothing much else constructive to say.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    ...carry on attacking Mr Ford...because really, basically that's all that there is left to do. There's nothing much else constructive to say.
    Reading Flying Magazine over the years, it was certainly full of stories pilots who made single 'honest' mistakes and faced the full wrath of FAA enforcement and massive legal battles to regain their pilot certificates.

    There was even the recent (past 10 years) grounding of Bob Hoover for some sort of technicality. The seeming inconsistency is interesting.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Reading Flying Magazine over the years, it was certainly full of stories pilots who made single 'honest' mistakes and faced the full wrath of FAA enforcement and massive legal battles to regain their pilot certificates.

    There was even the recent (past 10 years) grounding of Bob Hoover for some sort of technicality. The seeming inconsistency is interesting.
    I don't remember cases of the FAA revoking certificates or the like after single honest mistakes (not that I have a database of FAA enforcement actions either of course).

    And Bob Hoover was grounded because his medical certificate was revoked. https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avia..._jj/bobhoover/

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I don't remember cases of the FAA revoking certificates or the like after single honest mistakes (not that I have a database of FAA enforcement actions either of course).

    And Bob Hoover was grounded because his medical certificate was revoked. https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avia..._jj/bobhoover/
    The thing is, it seems to me that he saw the 737 taxiing and overflew it before making a steep descent to land on the taxiway, rather than abandoning the approach the moment things didn't look right. I think the FAA should at least be required make an assessment of an elderly pilot's cognitive abilities after an event like this. A fine imposed on a guy like Harrison Ford isn't going to have much effect.

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I don't remember cases of the FAA revoking certificates or the like after single honest mistakes (not that I have a database of FAA enforcement actions either of course).

    And Bob Hoover was grounded because his medical certificate was revoked. https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avia..._jj/bobhoover/
    Ok, "You don't remember cases"...and "Hoover's treatment was totally above board/consistent and not concerning" (Maybe I'm putting words in your mouth...but).

    I would disagree and say that the FAA, like any good government entity, has many times operated on the aggressive and harsh enforcement side of the gray scale in contrast to the warm fuzzy "nice little chat" that Mr. Ford received. Hey, aviation is a life and death manner...we shall lean towards zero tolerance...yes? Well, maybe that was a good guy who made an innocent mistake...let's not be harsh...Ohh, but Bob Hoover while performing a show and exercising genius airmanship...some FAA guy decides he came out of the loop 20 feet too low...we must start formal action and work to get him grounded...however we can...

    The link below is an archive of that obscure and journalistically bad magazine that is sometimes referred to. It presents the Hoover story in a somewhat different context than your comment and link. AND, no doubt, there are factually correct comments on both sides as well as some gray areas and technicalities that are also valid...on both sides.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=0y...cement&f=false

    (PS- do an internet search on FAA aggressive or harsh enforcement (don't say Hoover) and you can find plenty of comment on Hoover (even without him being in the search term)...which I think contains a fair number of valid points).

    Regarding your link- is there some reason that Hoover had to be grounded at all? Would the action of simply downgrading his first class medical to second class not have been reasonable AND kept him flying AND kept him out of the Aviation press as the symbol of oppression?
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    bla bla bla...
    I don't remember cases of the FAA revoking certificates or the like after single honest mistakes (not that I have a database of FAA enforcement actions either of course).

    And Bob Hoover was grounded because his medical certificate was revoked [as opposed to because of a single honest mistake]

    (Maybe I'm putting words in your mouth)
    Yes, maybe.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Summary:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I didn't read your link and refuse to discuss that the FAA may act in any way other than black and white, consistent perfection.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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