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  • Yeah I wasn't really referring to the "interference with a flight crew" thing, although it seems that rule is being interpreted much more broadly as of late (how exactly is taking a photo "interfering"?).

    It was more about the increasing tendency of government to respond to documentation of corporate misdeeds by forbidding the documentation of corporate misdeeds. http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/...ts/ag_gag.html
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

    Comment


    • A little OT but this sort of stuff seems to be spreading to other modes of transportation: http://www.wistv.com/story/37854078/...y-armed-guards
      Be alert! America needs more lerts.

      Eric Law

      Comment


      • Geez...cruise ships...talk about no-win scenarios!

        They just are NOT equipped to do much in the way of medicine- I've heard too many war stories. I guess I'd have a policy to not_allow really pregnant gals on board.

        Cue the 47 million angles of corporate America and customers.

        -Lawyers (yes lawyers contribute when they attack that common sense sometimes falls short in a court of law)
        -Was the no-pregnancy policy in big enough font?
        -Was the security dude over-kill or was there a genuine impasse where the folks refused to get off?
        -Was the security dude a jerk, OR was the weapon and dog just part of the job (I remember walking past dogs and dudes with guns as I guess there's typically some drug stuff goin on with cruises.
        -Yeah, the fact that every cell phone is a video cam corder- videotape your abuse (but don't video tape the beginning when the cruise person tries to be polite)
        -That people have- in some cases- been the abuser of the provider-customer relationship...and have gotten better at it in recent years....get yourself on the morning TV....I'm guessing there's a new cruise coming out of this soon- along with a new plane ticket from Flyover.

        Cruise ships are an epitome of 'lawlessness' in the entertainment industry...I hear some not so great stories about the employees on the boats...these are generally not US businesses and therefore sometimes violate what would be employment laws if they were US businesses.
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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        • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
          -Was the security dude a jerk, OR was the weapon and dog just part of the job.
          Three problems with that job:

          1. The terrorists won. They won spectacularly. Everyone is defensive and afraid. Westerners now confront their own people clad in body-armor and armed with weapons designed for the battlefield. And they might need that.

          2. There are now a lot of security personel who get off on intimidating people while wearing their battlefield weapon special-ops style strapped to their chest like a new-born baby. This is military-fetish culture. This is insecurity.

          3. Corporate industry has been allowed to grow too large to remain human and socially-accountable.

          We're just a very sick society right now and it's pretty obvious how we got here.

          Comment


          • Ok, I get it, we all hate the airlines. We're now up to 25 pages of 'anecdotes' about how much we hate the airlines.

            Here's the facts. For inflation adjusted dollars, the average round trip "all in" airfare (yes, that includes the dreaded bag fees) is down 17% since 2000. It's down 31% since 1990 and 43% since 1980. That's reflected in the number of people who travel by air. In 1978, less than a quarter of the population had flown in the previous 12 months. Now, half of the population (48%) flies at least once a year.

            Perception would have you believe that the airlines are greedy and uncompetitive. The reality is that while the airlines have been having some of their best years ever recently, their average profit margin (11.1%) is still lower than the average margin at all US corporations (15%) and has never exceeded it. The airlines reinvested the most ever on aircraft, IT, and infrastructure (over 20 Billion). They are flying larger airplanes and retiring the much loathed props and RJs (in 2005 only 47% of US departures were on aircraft > 100 seats, last year that was up to 56% and trending up). And while the feeling is that mergers have been bad for competitiveness, airlines have actually been going after each other's hubs and for a given city pair in the US, in 2000 there were 3.33 airlines serving that route, in 2017 that's up to 3.53.

            And then there's reliability and service. The Involuntary Denied Boarding rate (the one that brought us Dr Dao) was at it's lowest ever recorded rate at around 3pax/10000 versus 9/10,000 just 5 years ago. Lost Baggage last year was also at it's lowest ever recorded rate (99.75% of bags found their owners). Both On-time Arrivals and Cancellations hover near their highest rates. In a year that had all these horrible anecdotes, The DOT Passenger complaint rate was at a 5 year low, and the JD Power customer satisfaction level was also up for the 5th straight year to its highest ever recorded level

            I won't even waste time here discussing the Safety stats of the US airlines. Simply put, regardless of the gnashing of teeth here, the safety record of US airlines in recent years is simply remarkable.


            So, to sum up, todays Airlines offer less expensive, far more reliable, and far safer travel from point A to point B than ever, yet somehow the perception is that it's worse than it's ever been. I realize that flies in the face of today's 'news' where every single miniscule incident is caught on camera and instantly blows up on social media. Get over it people......you will no longer be served a thick New York Strip steak in coach class by a 22 year old blonde in hot pants. That hasn't happened in 40 years. However, if you want to get to your destination for less money than ever, at much higher on time rates, with far more on board entertainment options, while wearing your flip flops and torn up jeans, then airline travel has never been better
            Last edited by Vnav; 2018-04-02, 21:10.
            Parlour Talker Extraordinaire

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Vnav View Post
              So, to sum up, todays Airlines offer less expensive, far more reliable, and far safer travel from point A to point B than ever, yet somehow the perception is that it's worse than it's ever been.
              Hmmm. I'll bet that perception comes from the fact that the experience of flying economy class is worse than ever. It's kind of like the old Woody Allen joke turned around: the service here is terrible, at the best price ever.

              To sum it up, it's a race to the bottom generation.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                Hmmm. I'll bet that perception comes from the fact that the experience of flying economy class is worse than ever.
                In other words, it's all about feelings, not about any kind of reality.

                Comment


                • Genuine thank you 5-Nav-V for providing Super Genius Perspective.

                  I have very few statistics to back things up- however, one can pick and choose selected things to support an argument.

                  I DO have some stats on seat pitch.

                  I DO know that after several personal recent delay incidents, there was less done than ever to help make connections than in the past.

                  I recently paid 300 bucks to change to an earlier flight- but due to running out of deicing fluid after a much-forecast snowstorm I missed my high $ connection...any refund? Nope.

                  I recently canceled a $2000 trip- WAAAAAAY in advance...The airline is probably going to get to keep all of it. In the olden days, I got it all back...where'd the middle ground go?

                  I got to watch a stormy Sunday evening cause an Atlanta meltdown...wasn't THAT stormy and it WASN'T Friday night...minimal safety backup on anything anymore.

                  It ain't better than it's ever been before...cheaper perhaps, better no.

                  In your defense, we do occasionally mention other industries where what seems like rrrreeeeaaaalllyyyy basic fundamental customer service is bulldozed (ultimately by some dudes (and dudettes) in an MBAs who never worked the front lines)...but hey, it looks good on Wall Street.

                  Peace, Love, Moustaches.
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • i wouldn't mind seeing some of VNAV's sources. just sayin....

                    as for profits, look deep into 3BS's last post for the answer to profit. funny how they keep talking about fares continuously going down, but i, as a super-frequent flier, end up paying continuously MORE. several years ago i easily found MIA-LAX for ~$850 in 1st class. now? well north of $1300. MIA-NYC ( a SUPER competitive market) used to be $600 in 1st. now? $865 is the cheapest i can find. I could go on and on listing the routes i regularly have flown and continue to fly, but what's the use? all the stats "prove" i'm wrong and the airliars are right.

                    3BS talks about the ridiculous change fees and pretty much never being able to get a refund, unless of course you were stupid enough to pay $3000 for a "fully refundable" cattle class ticket on a $265 econ fare... yeah, good bet to do that!

                    back in the not too distant passed, if i found a lower fare on aa.com than the one i had paid, all i had to do is call up and ask and they would refund the difference. now, they consider that a "change," so if the fare difference is more than the $200 change fee, they will give me a credit voucher for the difference. oh how magnificently benevolent and honest of them.

                    and don't start in with the, "well you could always drive or take amtrak" bullshit. we all know that lame-ass argument fails.

                    lastly, drawing the distinction that we pax only "feel" a certain way while airliars speak REALITY, let's cut the bullshit there as well. the REALITY is that aircraft have become increasingly less comfortable despite airliars claiming how wonderful their new interiors are. and let's not kid ourselves about how shitty service has gotten and the ridiculous abuses by cabin crew of their newly acquired super powers. shit, i bought my 83 y/o mom a 1st class ticket on untied for last week and when she asked for a diet coke she was simply ignored--twice.

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                    • All I know is that I used to be able to fly on a scheduled carrier, most often BA and select a seat at the time of booking, get a hot snack Inflight and a free drink. Now, I have to pay to select a seat at the time of booking or wait until 24 hrs pre flight to do it for free and don’t get any free food or drink. Seat pitch has got smaller.
                      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                        All I know is that I used to be able to fly on a scheduled carrier, most often BA and select a seat at the time of booking, get a hot snack Inflight and a free drink. Now, I have to pay to select a seat at the time of booking or wait until 24 hrs pre flight to do it for free and don’t get any free food or drink. Seat pitch has got smaller.
                        In other words, it's all about feelings, not about any kind of reality.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          In other words, it's all about feelings, not about any kind of reality.
                          that's really a nonsensical statement there. Feelings: i feel i'm not getting my money's worth. Reality: seats are physically narrower and seat pitch is inches (PLURAL) shorter. Reality: food and drinks used to be free. Reality: not any more. Reality: you could cancel trips and get refunds fairly regularly and without having a death in the family. Reality: now, even if your entire family were killed, you'd be hard pressed to find an airline that would refund your ticket.

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                          • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                            that's really a nonsensical statement there.
                            Concur.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Vnav View Post
                              Blah, blah, blah, safety, blah, blah, blah.
                              Indeed you guys are doing a great job driving the aircraft through rain, snow, sleet, hail, fog and dark of night...and doing it better AND cheaper than ever, too*.

                              Brown font to indicate there is a little extra meaning there.
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                                ***now, even if your entire family were killed, you'd be hard pressed to find an airline that would refund your ticket.***
                                I MIGHT challenge you on that being a reality, but not betting much more than a beer

                                ...Conversely, it's spooky to think about and crack dry jokes:

                                There probably is a pretty decent court case if they don't get you to your destination within 24 hours...(Of course, just set up the morgue at the destination airport and don't delay picking up the bodies)...if you missed a connection, that's your problem for booking them too close together!

                                Maybe you CAN have a refund if you agree not to sue them for the crash? But indeed, if you sue for wrongful death, we're keeping the fare (it helps squeeze that extra 0.0005% on our year end profit)...

                                I'm sure you CAN have a refund, but you will have to go to this well hidden website, submit your grievance and then wait 6 to 8 months for the review panel to decide...but fear not- the auto-generated e-mail about how much we value customer service will be there within minutes.
                                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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