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Thread: The United debarcle

  1. #401
    Super Moderator brianw999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    Obviously!
    ...... But a Lufthansa 747. Now, that is a different kettle of fish.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  2. #402
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    I'm new here, so please forgive what might perhaps be seen as a dumb question, but what does this thread have to do with either the 747-8 or Lufthanza?

    Even if the thread were re-titled "Aviation Customer Relations Culture" as proposed in post #4, I'm still struggling to understand why Lufthanza or the 747-8 are part of the discussion?

  3. #403
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashcrash View Post
    I'm new here, so please forgive what might perhaps be seen as a dumb question, but what does this thread have to do with either the 747-8 or Lufthanza?

    Even if the thread were re-titled "Aviation Customer Relations Culture" as proposed in post #4, I'm still struggling to understand why Lufthanza or the 747-8 are part of the discussion?
    Absolutely nothing.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  4. #404
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    FlashCrash,

    If you sit a watch for a while you'll start to notice that some threads drift a little off topic over time, then LH-B744 will make comments that sometimes seem to have nothing to do with anything, this seems to stir BoeingBobby and we sit a watch the train wreck ensue.

    At least that's what I do

  5. #405
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaztr View Post
    FlashCrash,

    If you sit a watch for a while you'll start to notice that some threads drift a little off topic over time, then LH-B744 will make comments that sometimes seem to have nothing to do with anything, this seems to stir BoeingBobby and we sit a watch the train wreck ensue.

    At least that's what I do
    Indeed.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  6. #406
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    ...... But a Lufthansa 747. Now, that is a different kettle of fish.
    It really is a kettle of fish these days.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaztr View Post
    FlashCrash,

    If you sit a watch for a while you'll start to notice that some threads drift a little off topic over time, then LH-B744 will make comments that sometimes seem to have nothing to do with anything, this seems to stir BoeingBobby and we sit a watch the train wreck ensue.

    At least that's what I do

    Love it!

  8. #408
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    Thanx BB,

    I wasn't sure what your reaction might be!!!

    Oh, and FlashCrash, you need to learn about the BLUE text

    VAZ

  9. #409
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    So it seems Southwest are trying to emulate United?

    BBC have a passenger video showing another passenger being forcibly removed from a Southwest flight. Her 'crime' was apparently claiming she had a serious allergy to two dogs taken into the cabin. Dogs (and presumably their owners) stayed, passenger forcibly carried down the aisle and off.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-u...of-dog-allergy

    I'm sure there's another side to the story, mind...

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjwk View Post
    I'm sure there's another side to the story, mind...
    Easier to deplane the allergic passenger than the dogs, their owner(s) and decontaminate the plane, I suppose...

  11. #411
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Karl View Post
    Easier to deplane the allergic passenger than the dogs, their owner(s) and decontaminate the plane, I suppose...
    Yes.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Karl View Post
    Easier to deplane the allergic passenger than the dogs, their owner(s) and decontaminate the plane, I suppose...
    That's a good point which I'd not considered. Since there's another thread specifically on this incident, I'll leave this one alone and let it return to its previous topics

  13. #413
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Default WN Debacle

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox News
    Traveling with small children can be a challenge in itself, but the patience of one Los Angeles couple was put to the test when Southwest Airlines unexpectedly booted their young family of four off a flight on Oct. 9. That evening, Erin Gatling and Craig Schilling took to Facebook Live to share the details of the traveling nightmare. Situated in Chicago’s Midway International Airport, with their 3-year-old son Gunner and 16-month-old daughter Paige, Schilling reports that the airline told the family that their next flight was canceled because their kids were “noisy” and “rowdy” on the initial flight....
    So far, I have not been able to get the full article nor a good link....a snip from Yayhoo, citing Fox.

    Here's to proper use of procedures and checklists so that the proper middle ground between abusive customers, abusive providers, common sense, and a modicum of respect is achieved...or not...
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    So far, I have not been able to get the full article nor a good link....a snip from Yayhoo, citing Fox.

    Here's to proper use of procedures and checklists so that the proper middle ground between abusive customers, abusive providers, common sense, and a modicum of respect is achieved...or not...
    Kids should travel in the cargo hold, if it is heated. If not, then muzzled and caged.

  15. #415
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
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    and they should be categorically banned from biz and first.

  16. #416
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Nothing earth-shattering, I'll even say this is mostly 'fake news', but might rank being listed here.

    For international folks, we are having lots of griping in the US over behavior regarding our national song.

    This incident may have in-fact occurred; however, common sense tells me that it's not a "Company Policy"

    Common sense also tells me that there may be context missing from the story...I tend to support symbolic gestures to military people who have given everything, BUT I do side with airlines on wanting to keep folks acting halfway normal on aircraft...maybe the FA was a LITTLE BIT out of line from the good-PR standpoint...or maybe there's some genuine factors that are not listed in the article.

    Passenger Says Delta Crew Stopped Her From Singing National Anthem for Fallen Soldier

    (SAVANNAH, Ga.) — A Georgia physician said her plan to honor a fallen soldier by singing the U.S. national anthem aboard a Delta Air Lines plane carrying the soldier's casket was stopped by a flight attendant who told her it would violate company policy.
    Dr. Pamela Gaudry of Savannah said she and fellow passengers were told "to stay quietly in our seats" as an honor guard escorted the casket from the plane Saturday at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. A flight attendant told her that singing "The Star Spangled Banner" would make passengers from other countries uncomfortable, she said.
    "I couldn't put up with that," Gaudry told The Associated Press in an interview Monday. "I wouldn't be offended if I was in their country."
    Gaudry said she kept quiet until she was off the plane. Then she found an unoccupied stretch of the airport terminal where she took out her cellphone and self-recorded a 6 minute, 30 second video that she posted on Facebook. By Monday afternoon, it had been viewed more than 778,000 times.
    Gaudry said she was flying Saturday from Philadelphia to Atlanta when the pilot told passengers the plane was carrying the remains of a fallen American soldier. She said she began asking other passengers if they would join her in singing the anthem as the casket was taken off the plane. Many agreed enthusiastically, she said.
    "The chief flight attendant came back to my seat and she kneeled down and she said, 'It is against company policy to do what you're doing,'" Gaudry said in the video. "And I said, 'The national anthem? And there's a soldier onboard?' And she said, 'Yes, you cannot sing the national anthem. It is against company policy.'"
    Gaudry said she stayed in her seat with her head down — a decision she soon regretted. In her video, she reserved the harshest criticism for herself: "I just did the most uncourageous thing in my life today."
    Anthony Black, a spokesman for Atlanta-based Delta, declined to comment Monday on the specifics on Gaudry's account.
    "There is not a policy about singing the national anthem, period," Black said.

    http://time.com/4984878/delta-flight-national-anthem/
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  17. #417
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    oh please! what is fake is "respect" for a song, a song that has now been equated with somehow representing the military. freedom of speech has long ago been determined to allow even flag burning. so really, who gives a f$%^ about the stupid anthem?

    and who sings the national anthem to honor fallen service folks? it's Taps you idiots!

  18. #418
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    "Chicago aviation officials fired two officers and suspended two others involved in the forcible removal of a United Airlines passenger from a packed flight ... Chicago Department of Aviation security officers and a sergeant "mishandled a nonthreatening situation that resulted in a physically violent forcible removal of a passenger""

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/us/uni...ned/index.html

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashcrash View Post
    "Chicago aviation officials fired two officers and suspended two others involved in the forcible removal of a United Airlines passenger from a packed flight ... Chicago Department of Aviation security officers and a sergeant "mishandled a nonthreatening situation that resulted in a physically violent forcible removal of a passenger""

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/us/uni...ned/index.html
    The offending officer was fired. A sargeant who subsequently falsified the report was also fired. Now we're getting somewhere. Hopefully, this will be a turning point against the growing trend of authoritative abuse-of-power and corporate disrespect. At least two major US airlines have altered their policies to reduce or eliminate the practice of overbooking as a result of this incident. The irony is that this wasn't a case of overbooking; it was a case of prioritizing deadheading crew over paid customers, essentially breaking the consumer trust and violating the implied contract (regardless of the contract-of-carriage).

  20. #420
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    ***essentially breaking the consumer trust and violating the implied contract (regardless of the contract-of-carriage).***
    Such wiggle words.

    I wonder if the data are showing shifts in customers selecting the rock-bottom fares versus more flexible ones?
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