Page 38 of 43 FirstFirst ... 283637383940 ... LastLast
Results 741 to 760 of 844

Thread: The United debarcle

  1. #741
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    it IS a commercial airport and an international airport at that. no, it is not set up to handle wide bodies. but don't tell me that the terminal itself would not have been more comfortable for 24 hours than the aluminum tube they were cramped into, with untied's famously spacious seating.
    a) Ok, I won't tell you that again.

    b) As I said, I'm sure nobody at the base knew that is was going to take Untied a small ice age to get their act together and rescue these people. If they had, perhaps something could have been arranged (perhaps not).

  2. #742
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,995

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    a) Ok, I won't tell you that again.

    b) As I said, I'm sure nobody at the base knew that is was going to take Untied a small ice age to get their act together and rescue these people. If they had, perhaps something could have been arranged (perhaps not).
    because you've been there and know exactly how it's laid out. i forgot.

    what exactly do you think the people on the ground thought? that united was flying a replacement jet over? mechanics? parts? food? a cheerleading squad? at what point did it NOT occur to all of these brain surgeons that the delay was going to be ridonkulously long and that all the pax would be suffering? what about crew time? didn't someone realize almost immediately that the crew was a guaranteed timeout the minute they went "technical" (what a nice way of saying effed up)?

    now, this is not quite the same thing but here's what aa did (one good thing, one time) when my flight had to return to mia for an unlatched door: dispatch knew the plane was going out of service due to overweight landing. they also knew they had a spare plane, but unloading pax, luggage, freight and reloading same was gonna take some time. so, before we were even off the plane, customer service had ordered up hundreds of sandwiches, snacks, fruits and drinks and showed up at the new gate right away.

    yes, easy to do when you're at your own hub. but the idea is they planned for it and acted, as opposed to sitting around waiting and letting everyone fend for themselves.

    there is no way you can convince me that this is yet another "we-don't-give-a-shit" failure by both untied and the govt turds.

  3. #743
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    both
    This word is inconsistent with black and white thinking.

    By the way- as long as we're getting straight on our all-or-nothings:

    1. Air France is totally freakin' awesome because they got their passengers out in 17 hours, and United sucks because it took 24?

    OR

    2. Is Evan chapped because United went back to New Yark. You don't think there's a chance that half of those passengers weren't ready to punt on China and that the other half would get there almost as quickly by going back?

    OR

    3. Does it only count as good customer service if you involve a second airplane?
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  4. #744
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,975

    Default

    Group 9 to board a CRJ.

    Rather laughable.

    Thanks AA.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  5. #745
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,995

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Group 9 to board a CRJ.

    Rather laughable.

    Thanks AA.
    yeah, the fact that there are now 10 groups to board a plane with what, 70 seats? is friggin insane.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LGe265pwvU

  6. #746
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    I will tell all you one thing. Boarding groups could be used really for efficiency and comfort.
    I used to fly very frequently between Buenos Aires and Rio Grande (Arg). At 3:30 hours, that's possibly the 2nd longest domestic flight you can take in Argentina.
    Rio Grande is a rather small city, with a population of some 80K. And you can count with the fingers of 1 hand the number of commercial flights per day to/from any city, including one to/from Buenos Aires served by Aerolíneas Argentinas with a 737-700 or its subsidiary Austral with the EMB-190.
    There is a very small Aerolíneas ground crew based there, and the check-in agents are the same than the gate agents, and they are always the same 3 guys/gals.
    When boarding the flight to Buenos Aires, they followed always the same procedure that is NOT the official Aerilíneas Argentinas procedure.
    Screw the groups on the boarding pass. It went like this:
    Passengers with Condor Gold, Condor Platinum, SkyTeam Elite, business class, with small children and with restricted mobility, you are welcome to board now.
    [5 minutes later, to give these persons time to put their stuff in the overhead bins and take their seats]
    Rows 22 and 21, welcome aboard.
    [After these 12 had gone through the gate]
    Rows 20 and 19, welcome aboard.
    And so on calling 2 rows per turn from back to front, until they finished with the economy class rows. Rows 4 and 4 were the last to board.
    The result? You almost never encountered persons standing in the aisle ahead of your seat reaching for the bins. Everybody that was on the plane (except the ones of the 1st call that were almost always already seated) had a seat further aft of about in your same row. The boarding process was much smoother and quick, and less stressful, starting with the boarding call that you could anticipate very well when it was going to be about your turn.
    The first time I was baffled. The second and following times, I loved it.
    Of course, back then Aeroliíneas Argentinas was not selling boarding groups or offering earlier boarding for a price. The last time I took that flight (or any domestic flight in Argentina) was mid-2014.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  7. #747
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    878

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The last time I took that flight (or any domestic flight in Argentina) was mid-2014.
    And Argentina has been crying for you ever since. (sorry, that was just too easy)

  8. #748
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    And Argentina has been crying for you ever since. (sorry, that was just too easy)
    Yes, although I begged them don't cry for me.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  9. #749
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,543

    Default The Lufthansa Debärcle

    Suing a passenger for not taking his connecting flight. This is where we are.

    To recap:

    - Airlines are allowed to alter itineraries, change stopover points, add technical stopovers and reschedule flights.
    - Passengers must always fly the exact itinerary they booked or pay a fine.

    https://edition.cnn.com/travel/artic...ntl/index.html

  10. #750
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    The other day I went to MacDonald's. I wanted a quarter pounder, just the sandwich. But I saw a special offer that gave you the meal for less than the sandwich alone. So I bought the meal, ate the sandwich, didn't put any soda in the cup, and trashed the fires. Did I commit a crime?

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  11. #751
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The other day I went to MacDonald's. I wanted a quarter pounder, just the sandwich. But I saw a special offer that gave you the meal for less than the sandwich alone. So I bought the meal, ate the sandwich, didn't put any soda in the cup, and trashed the fires. Did I commit a crime?
    Yes, you put McDonald's in your body. Aside from that, no, you're just gaming the system that is trying to game you.

  12. #752
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,995

    Default

    at least these mindless, bullshit lawsuits are being dismissed. i would LOVE LOVE LOVE for an airline to sue me for this (i did it twice in the past two or three years). perhaps, nay, definitely! if airfares were based on actual costs to airlines (e.g., fuel, actual miles flown) you wouldn't see cases like LAX-MIA-MGA=$500 while MIA-MGA=$610. that's 6720 miles vs. 2014 (r/t), yet the shorter route is 20% cheaper???

    on another note, yesterday i had the distinct DISpleasure of flying on an older 737 configured as a MAX. absolutely despicable. biz class seating lost an amazing 4-5" of seat pitch! and shockingly, though it is still 2x2, the aisle is so friggin narrow even properly sized rollaboards have trouble rolling through. i couldn't bear to look in the back. but i'm sure it's a special kind of hell.

  13. #753
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    This is where we are.
    No, not really. I think the policy is yesterday’s news.

    The lawsuit- interesting...

    The double standard of their freedom to reschedule you with minimal recourse vs your freedom to reschedule with great penalty...yeah, eye rolling.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  14. #754
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    at least these mindless, bullshit lawsuits are being dismissed. i would LOVE LOVE LOVE for an airline to sue me for this (i did it twice in the past two or three years). perhaps, nay, definitely! if airfares were based on actual costs to airlines (e.g., fuel, actual miles flown) you wouldn't see cases like LAX-MIA-MGA=$500 while MIA-MGA=$610. that's 6720 miles vs. 2014 (r/t), yet the shorter route is 20% cheaper???

    on another note, yesterday i had the distinct DISpleasure of flying on an older 737 configured as a MAX. absolutely despicable. biz class seating lost an amazing 4-5" of seat pitch! and shockingly, though it is still 2x2, the aisle is so friggin narrow even properly sized rollaboards have trouble rolling through. i couldn't bear to look in the back. but i'm sure it's a special kind of hell.
    What puzzles me is how the airlines could be losing anything by this. You've already paid their price for that seat to fly that distance, whether you are in it or not. So they're not losing that. The ONLY way the airline is going to make more in the deal is if you don't show up and they can re-sell that seat as standby. (Unless... they were hoping to sell you things on board, seeing that airplanes have become shopping malls...)

    The only thing I can imagine is that connecting flights traveling through hubs are possibly more full than flights terminating there, and thus the more expensive terminating flights subsidize the lower fares on the connecting ones. But that's just their game. We can't be restricted from playing our own game. Not in a free market.

    on another note... i couldn't bear to look in the back.
    I wouldn't go looking there for sympathy.

  15. #755
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    If airfares were based on actual costs....
    Welcome to the free market. Prices of EVERYTHING (including of people, like wages and professional fees) are NOT based on cost but on supply and demand.
    Cost does play a part because companies will not sustain selling a product long-term below it's DIRECT VARIABLE cost (which is much much lower than the total cost), so if they can't sell it above that cost they will stop offering, supply goes down and, if there is demand, price goes up.

    Returning to the topic, I did this once. I was almost forced to do it.

    It was a business trip to China but first I had to go to Argentina. The "triangle" El Paso - Buenos Aires - Shanghai - El Paso was almost TWICE as much as a round trip to Buenos Aires plus a round trip to Shanghai (both starting from El Paso). I ended up splitting not only the triangle but also the airlines. It was United ELP-IAH-EZE-IAH-ELP and American 2 tickets, one one-way from IAH to DFW and then ELP-DFW-HKG-ORD-ELP (I actually had business to do in Xiamen and Shanghai, so after HKG there was a short triangle flight in a Chinese airline that was NOT more expensive than 2 round trip flights: HKG-XMN-PVG-HKG).

    Immediately after making the reservations, I called both United and American to tell them that I was not going to take one of the legs. Both of them told me I can't do that and when I said "watch me", American said that if I don't show up for the 1st leg (ELP-DFW) then the full ticket will be cancelled and I would not be able to take the rest of the flights. The lady was still kind enough that she changed my reservation making the departure point DFW instead of ELP which, while was still more expensive than the ticket starting and ending in ELP, was about the same that the combined international round trip + the one-way IAH-DFW. United, instead, said that if I dropped the last leg it would be a no-show (even if I advised in advance, I just cannot cancel one leg of a ticket) and no money would be reimbursed. "Deal" I said. Not only did I drop the IAH-ELP leg, but sine I had a lot of time in IAH I was kind enough to walk to the United counter and tell them "Hey, something showed up, I need to go somewhere else before going to El Paso so I will not be taking this last leg, just letting you know you can sell the seat to somebody else". And he said "we can't do that and we can't do that, we cannot cancel one leg of your ticket". So I just said "ok" and walked away regretting of having taken the time to go to the United counter.

    By the way... The series of consecutive flights EZE-IAH-DFW-HKG-XMN took like 36 hours which, combined with the 14-hours time-zone difference, totally killed me. Next "morning"(?) I didn't know where in spacetime I was.

    Other scams that you need to navigate: A ticket from ELP to EZE via DFW and MIA was $400 more expensive PER HEAD (and we are 5 heads) than one round from ELP to MIA via DFW and one round from MIA to EZE. AND THEY WERE EXACTLY THE SAME FLIGHTS IN THE SAME DAYS!!!!
    Then I realized that I had enough miles for a round trip to EZE if I could get the cheap miles option, which of course wasn't available but I still had enough miles for one leg at the expensive miles option. The problem is that you cannot pay PART of a ticket with miles. So I divided the MIA-EZE-MIA round trip in 2 one-ways, one I would pay with miles and the other with money. Except that the one way was MORE EXPENSIVE THE THE ROUND. THAN THE WHOLE ROUND. So I would ending up paying more cash and depleting 60K miles. Nice deal!!!! Finally what I did was pay with miles the ELP-MIA (via DFW) round trip (also 60K miles), If you don't count the value of the miles, it was my cheapest flight to Argentina at below $1100 (and it could have been below $1000 had I booked a couple of days earlier when I started looking, but that's what it took to figure out this mess).

    To be honest, screw the free market, this is one point where I would not mind some regulations. This scheme (or scam) simply removes from the consumers the ability to compare and analyze what are the options, because the options move and change while you analyze them.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  16. #756
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Welcome to the free market.... screw the free market...
    Still, they cannot charge you once for a service and then charge you again for not using it. Unless the governing body is corrupt.

    Oh, right...

  17. #757
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    on another note, yesterday i had the distinct DISpleasure of flying on an older 737 configured as a MAX. absolutely despicable. biz class seating lost an amazing 4-5" of seat pitch! and shockingly, though it is still 2x2, the aisle is so friggin narrow even properly sized rollaboards have trouble rolling through. i couldn't bear to look in the back. but i'm sure it's a special kind of hell.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	22A.JPG 
Views:	10 
Size:	65.3 KB 
ID:	21731

    Welcome to 22A in an American Airlines MD-80, last Sunday, ELP-DFW. And that's before the guy in 21A decided to recline his seat.
    I have to say that the next leg (DFW-MEX) was in a 737-800 disguised as a 787 (interior), and the nice surprise that 10B had more or less 2 more inches than the picture above which made all the difference between sheer pain, torture and suffering vs being just utterly uncomfortable. I don't know if row 10 has more legroom or if that was the standard economy seat legroom on that plane.

    I have a legal question. Not that I am going to do it, but could one make a legal complaint *(sue them?) because they sold me a product where I don't fit and they didn't specify the requirements to fit? And I am quite sure that if they do specify "people above 6'2" cannot fly economy and need to buy premium economy or better" would be "complainable" too since that would leave 2% of the population out and having to pay more just for being tall, which is out our our control, especially when they have seats where they HAVE to have extra legroom even if they didn't have premium economy (emergency rows, front seats...). That would be discrimination. I mean, they are required to have accessibility for handicapped people and offer special accommodations for which they they cannot charge, and they make much less than 2% of the population. I mean, it would be as easy as "if you are X high or more, you are entitled to a seat with more legroom for the economy price". And, what ends up happening, is that they don't sell all the economy-plus seats and end up sitting standby pax in those seats (without charging extra). Or, like happened in that flight of the picture, just before boarding... "We have 2 exit rows available, who wants to switch"? Unfortunately, 2 short women were closer and faster than me.

    That was in American, In United I had a different and repulsive experience which is the reason why I try to avoid Untied when I can. There I was, sitting very similar than in that picture (in fact even worse) about to start a 10-hours flight, and just in the very row in front of me, which was a front-seat row, there were 6 (SIX!!!) seats available. It was a 767, 2-3-2 config, and only 1 seat int hat row was occupied. I told the FA if it was ok if I switched seats and he said "Sure, let me bring the card reader". He went on to explain me that I needed to pay the difference in the fare between economy and premium economy. I said "but the seat is available, look at me, it's not that I am being picky, I literally don't feet here, you have all the seats available, that you didn't and you will not sell at the premium price, what's the difference for United if I seat here or there". And he said "I see, you are right. So, do you want to purchase the premium economy or not? ... Excuse me sir? (now to the only guy seating in that row), can I see your boarding pass? Oh no, you've got the wrong seat, your seat is back there, Yes, I understand that you intend to stay there, and I am happy to sell you the upgrade. Otherwise, I am instructing you to move to your assigned seat, sir you know that not complying with the crew instructions is a criminal offense? If you don't move to your seat now I will need to call security to escort you off the plane". And it was not that particular FA's behavior. Other FA's did the same in all of the 4 legs of that round trip.

    That was the last time I flew in UA. If that's how they appreciate my business to the point that they cannot accept doing a small favor to improve my customer experience at no cost whatsoever for them (and I men NO, nothing, not a peny, zero cost), then I am not interested in helping them get any profit. When I have other options for a comparable price, I will avoid them.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  18. #758
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    When I have other options...
    The essense of the problem right there. Now sit down or we send Robocop in to clock you over the head.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen-Shot-2017-04-12-at-4.25.56-AM.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	88.1 KB 
ID:	21733  

  19. #759
    Senior Member brianw999's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tunbridge Wells, Kent. UK.
    Posts
    11,865

    Default

    I am disabled in that (A) I cannot walk long distances and therefore need assistance. (B) I also need a seat belt extension. I can however sit in an over wing exit seat and I could probably open the emergency exit blindfolded. I am also quite capable of stepping out onto the wing and assist with an evacuation. Such a seat gives me the little bit more space to fit my legs into.
    Unfortunately A and B above mean that I am not permitted to sit in these seats and I am forced to sit in a seat with my knees wedged apart in acute pain for the entire flight. I have tried to explain my situation but the flight crews maintain a totally intransigent attitude and relegate me to an unsuitable seat.
    As a result I generally fly premium economy but why should I be forced to pay more when I am physically capable of operating the door and getting out ?
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  20. #760
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    I am disabled in that (A) I cannot walk long distances and therefore need assistance. (B) I also need a seat belt extension. I can however sit in an over wing exit seat and I could probably open the emergency exit blindfolded. I am also quite capable of stepping out onto the wing and assist with an evacuation. Such a seat gives me the little bit more space to fit my legs into.
    Unfortunately A and B above mean that I am not permitted to sit in these seats and I am forced to sit in a seat with my knees wedged apart in acute pain for the entire flight. I have tried to explain my situation but the flight crews maintain a totally intransigent attitude and relegate me to an unsuitable seat.
    As a result I generally fly premium economy but why should I be forced to pay more when I am physically capable of operating the door and getting out ?
    I don't know what you are talking about. Emergency row IS PREMIUM ECONOMY too!!!

    More to the point, I think they have not choice in not letting you seat there. They have to take your word for how fit you are and, when you were taken to the plane in a wheelchair already and requested seat-belt extension, that will raise doubts. They are not experts and cannot assess every individual situation in detail. So they will err ion the side of general safety (over of your own health and safety) because, IF something bad happens AND you fail to perform as expected, SOMEONE WILL SUE the airline for sitting you there (even if the reason why you could not perform was not your initial condition.

    That said, there are other seats with more legroom (including ones that they would have even if they did not have premium economy, like the front seats) and they could (and in my opinion should) offer you one of those seats at no extra charge.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •