Page 41 of 42 FirstFirst ... 3139404142 LastLast
Results 801 to 820 of 826

Thread: The United debarcle

  1. #801
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,373

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    High school students sleeping on the floor? That's what happens at home every once and then, and they seem to take it as it's fun. Pajama party, they call it.
    When I was a kid we used to call this corporate chaos.

  2. #802
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,706

    Default

    Mind the blue font (even when it is not there explicitly)

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  3. #803
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Tile floor with creepy people hanging out?
    Yes, that looks pretty much like a high school kids party.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  4. #804
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    If they overpower you between 4 big guys who force you out of the plane with no or minimum injuries, on what grounds are you going to sue them for so much as to make a big, fat, happy retirement?
    why do you think they settled so quickly with dao? shyte publicity, and just about a guarantee that a jury would nail them to a cross. that's why. as it turned out, he was NOT belligerent, yet they knocked out 2 teeth and broke his nose. cops and wannabe cops are always eager to use excessive force. it doesn't take much to get them to act stupidly.

    if i was only hurt a little bit, they would still wanna settle fast. jury trials are enormously expensive. that, and they KNOW there are very few folks in the US that like airlines, so just about every juror in the country would love to hand whatever airline its ass and award huge punitive damages.

  5. #805
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    why do you think they settled so quickly with dao? shyte publicity, and just about a guarantee that a jury would nail them to a cross. that's why. as it turned out, he was NOT belligerent, yet they knocked out 2 teeth and broke his nose. cops and wannabe cops are always eager to use excessive force. it doesn't take much to get them to act stupidly.

    if i was only hurt a little bit, they would still wanna settle fast. jury trials are enormously expensive. that, and they KNOW there are very few folks in the US that like airlines, so just about every juror in the country would love to hand whatever airline its ass and award huge punitive damages.
    Ok, but how much $$$ is a happy early retirement for you? I am a complete ignorant in these matters, but I don't think you are going to get 6 figures or even close. Or how much is a death if not?

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  6. #806
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,706

    Default

    Bad news... I just purchased a long-haul trip with United. I really wanted to do it with American, but when they are $250 more expensive and there are 5 of us...

    I don't know why, but in the last 3 years I have seen (at least for this route) that AA is consistently $200 to $300 more expensive per ticket. That "forced" me to book with United 2 of the 4 times that I purchased this trim in that period. In one case I could keep AA by, in one instance using miles for part of the trip and in another splitting the trip in 2 tickets (origin-stop-origin and stop-destination-stop) which happened to be $200 cheaper per ticket than the exact same flights purchased as one ticket.

    The reason that I like AA more are:
    - I have some degree of loyalty with them, after having flown quite a bit with a reasonable experience overall (by airlines standard, which is a very low bar).
    - They seem to treat the pax a little be better and be a little more friendly.
    - Most importantly for me: They let you move to an emergency exit row or front row if they have not sold the seats by the time of boarding. I just did that last week in the 4 flights that I took to MEX and back, emergency seats in all 4 flights, changed at the gate, and I felt like a king in first class just because my legs would fit. With United, even when I was already on board the plane and they have a full front row that was empty (as 1/2 of the plane), they would not allow me to move without paying the fare difference and after saying that my legs just didn't fit. This is so stupid!!! This time I will try again but, against the previous time, I will do it after take off (after the seat belt signs are turned off) and without asking. If they say something I will resist at least initially. They will not be able to drag me out of the plane by then. Let's see how "heavy" the situation gets. I will be traveling with my wife and kids so I will stop short of being too disruptive. But that's the main reason why I try to avoid United whenever I can.

    Oh, and by the way, for those that say "if you don't fit just buy premium economy and shut up", I tell you 2 things: 1) Premium economy was $1000 more expensive PER HEAD (did I mention we are 5?) The price went fro $1500 to $2500 for the 4 flights. It's not just a small plus. And, most importantly, 2) Why do I need to pay more to FIT in a seat in which I used to fit but I don;t fit anymore for reasons that are out of mu control? (1- being quite toll but still with about 1% being as tall or teller than me, so it's not ridiculously abnormal, an average long haul flight would have 2 to 5 pax as tall or taller, and 2) the continuously smaller seat pitch plus a policy that doesn't allow specially tall people to occupy seats that they NEED to have with more room even if premium economy would not exist -emergency and front rows- for the same price). What would you say if they charged more if you are black, or if you have a specific condition? I am not using "if you are Jewish or too fat" because some might say these these are things under one's control). And again, it's not a matter of comfort. It's a matter of geometry. I don't want more legroom, I have negative legroom. I just don't fit and I need to keep my legs in the aisle, only to have the FA come and tell me that I can't leave them there for safety reasons.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  7. #807
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Most importantly for me: They [AA] let you move to an emergency exit row or front row if they have not sold the seats by the time of boarding. I just did that last week in the 4 flights that I took to MEX and back, emergency seats in all 4 flights, changed at the gate, and I felt like a king in first class just because my legs would fit. With United, even when I was already on board the plane and they have a full front row that was empty (as 1/2 of the plane), they would not allow me to move without paying the fare difference
    Unfortunately I think it's only going to get worse. The FAA has decided (contrary to an impressive body of expert medical evidence I have to say) that seat pitch is not a safety issue.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fa...eat-2018-07-09

    Sadly, UAL A320 Main Cabin (economy, non-premium) seat pitch = 30 inches. Same for the UAL 737-900. The average for all US airlines, all aircraft types, is between 31 and 32 inches. Source:

    https://www.cheapflights.com/news/airline-legroom-guide

  8. #808
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flashcrash View Post
    Unfortunately I think it's only going to get worse. The FAA has decided (contrary to an impressive body of expert medical evidence I have to say) that seat pitch is not a safety issue.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fa...eat-2018-07-09

    Sadly, UAL A320 Main Cabin (economy, non-premium) seat pitch = 30 inches. Same for the UAL 737-900. The average for all US airlines, all aircraft types, is between 31 and 32 inches. Source:

    https://www.cheapflights.com/news/airline-legroom-guide
    add to that list aa's new max interior in the 738 ng.

  9. #809
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,373

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    And again, it's not a matter of comfort. It's a matter of geometry. I don't want more legroom, I have negative legroom. I just don't fit and I need to keep my legs in the aisle, only to have the FA come and tell me that I can't leave them there for safety reasons.
    Well, you can take heart in knowing that Delta has announced the end of reclining seats on short haul flights. That was the last shred of dignity for we of the economy class, but now perhaps you will have less negative legroom...

  10. #810
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    825

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    why do you think they settled so quickly with dao?
    I was more surprised that HE settled so quickly. I seem to recall he was going to become the great warrior and martyr for passenger rights....

  11. #811
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    I was more surprised that HE settled so quickly. I seem to recall he was going to become the great warrior and martyr for passenger rights....
    maybe others thought they could use him for that, but i don't recall reading any statements from him or even attributed to him that hinted at that. in fact, he made no public statements between being brutalized for bullshit and last week or so.

  12. #812
    Senior Member brianw999's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tunbridge Wells, Kent. UK.
    Posts
    11,841

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Well, you can take heart in knowing that Delta has announced the end of reclining seats on short haul flights. That was the last shred of dignity for we of the economy class, but now perhaps you will have less negative legroom...
    My pet hate. People who insist on reclining their seat into my face and crushing my arthritic knees on a short haul.
    Last edited by brianw999; 04-16-2019 at 02:22 PM.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  13. #813
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    My pet hate. People who insist on reclining their seat into my face and crushing my arthritic knees on a short haul.
    Been on both sides of the equation. People don't intentionally recline their seat into your face and arthritic knee. The use a service provided by the airline, reclinable seats, and your face and arthritic knee just happen to be there.

    The fault is the airline's that offer the reclining service and at the same time put seats so cramped and crammed that there is about zero legroom already before reclining.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  14. #814
    Senior Member brianw999's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tunbridge Wells, Kent. UK.
    Posts
    11,841

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    .......The fault is the airline's that offer the reclining service and at the same time put seats so cramped and crammed that there is about zero legroom already before reclining.
    Very true ...... but then there are people like me who ask the person sitting behind me if they mind me reclining my seat before I do it. I very rarely recline my seat on a short haul economy flight. At an average 7deg of recline in economy there is really no noticeable benefit. The problem doesn’t arise on long haul for me because I fly Premium Economy as a minimum.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  15. #815
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,844

    Default

    Ok, I guess I am ready for the gubmint to impose a comfortable seat pitch (Gabe, you still may be SOL).

    I generally oppose "big government", but much like the weather-related tarmac disasters, things are better with the new laws.

    I know everything is a trade off- we now have the occasional mass cancellation when large numbers of flights could still be completed with "acceptable" delays, but this is one case where the free market is causing us rats to eat each other.

    This way the marketing department will no longer have creativity to monkey with seat pitch so they can be 'smarter than the competition' and offer a lower fare.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  16. #816
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,373

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    I generally oppose "big government"
    This.

    You see it often, but what does it mean? Technology came around and there was an industrial revolution. We came to form our identities as tools in the post-industrial-age. What is your name? What do you do? There's no going back.
    Industry became more powerful than the ruling government. They abused this power, employing children and creating harsh, dangerous and often inhumane work environments. That is, unfortunately, human nature among humans lacking in moral compunction.
    Government stepped up, that is to say, the people stepped up through their government and said, no, we demand human dignity and safe working conditions. It worked. Industry, reigned in by government, continued to flourish and prosper.
    Industry must be governed. It will not govern itself by any other principal than growth, market share and profits. Industry seeks to oppress us. In order to maintain freedom, we must regulate industry.
    A narrative was born, born of great investment, that the problem was 'big government'. It tries to convince us that the things that attempt to keep the playing field a fair one are detrimental to our lives.
    Certainly, there is ineptitude and bureaucratic nonsense involved, and certainly this snares progress. But it's not a matter of scale, it's a matter of competence. You don't solve the competence problem by scaling down government.
    Certainly, there is some fat that needs to be trimmed, but most of it lies in the defense department. Oh, we need that to be big. Right. There is no double standard here. Move along...

    Back to seat pitch. The only thing that will gain us more seat pitch is regulation. Otherwise, it is a race to the bottom. Saddles instead of seats (they're in the pipeline). Industry is always coldly poised to abuse our human dignity. Once again, the people, through their government, need to say no. Legislation, compliance and enforcement. We need all three. That involves a government with resources, not a skeletal framework.


    ...this is one case where the free market is causing us rats to eat each other.
    Name one case when it isn't.

  17. #817
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Buenos Aires - Argentina
    Posts
    6,706

    Default

    While I would not oppose it, we don't necessarily need to change the seat pitch. Planes do have seats with more seat pitch even if there was no economy plus. Exit and front rows. Just make them available for standard economy price to people higher than say 6' or has specific medical conditions.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  18. #818
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,373

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    While I would not oppose it, we don't necessarily need to change the seat pitch. Planes do have seats with more seat pitch even if there was no economy plus. Exit and front rows. Just make them available for standard economy price to people higher than say 6' or has specific medical conditions.
    Great, I mean you get to be magnificently tall AND have exclusive seats. Meanwhile, the stunted commonfolk are herded in the back...

    Ok, I get your point. Bigger people need more room. But what if there are twenty people over 6'?

    Anyway, the problem these days is more often wider people needing more seat width.

  19. #819
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,975

    Default

    and then you get the abusers of the system who will claim all sorts of conditions that require more room. very much like ASKING people in the boarding area if they need assistance to board early. what idiot in their wrong mind wouldn't say "no?" on my flight last thursday, 13% of the plane boarded "needing assistance." in actuality, only 3 required a wheel chair. the remainder walked under their own power carrying and dragging bags heavier than mine. oh! and then there's the bullshit about keeping families together, so that if grandma claims she needs assistance, not only does she board first, her entire entourage of 8 able bodied young folk board with her.

    there is no secret that airlines are extremely difficult to make profitable. paying executives multi-tens of million dollar salaries works wonders for the bottom line. but aside from that, it really is a nightmare. i've discussed this issue with my now retired finance manager from AA. the enormous complexity of running a major airline is mind-boggling. he would say that AA runs multiple companies: the airline that transports people; a company dedicated to customer service to fix all the fuck-ups of the airline; a human resource/staffing company; a supply and distribution company; a repair company and on and on.

    i'm obviously not very sympathetic when they screw the pooch, since my view is simply: if you take on the responsibility to transport people, then that's what you need to do. no excuses. but every once in a while i marvel at how something as monstrous as AA, with 7000 flights PER DAY, functions even poorly.

  20. #820
    Senior Member brianw999's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tunbridge Wells, Kent. UK.
    Posts
    11,841

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    While I would not oppose it, we don't necessarily need to change the seat pitch. Planes do have seats with more seat pitch even if there was no economy plus. Exit and front rows. Just make them available for standard economy price to people higher than say 6' or has specific medical conditions.
    Trouble is, I am specifically barred from sitting in an exit row seat because I need disabled assistance from the terminal to the gate due to my not being able to walk long distances....and that’s the crux of my argument. I cannot walk long distances.....but I CAN stand up, operate an emergency exit and assist others out of the aircraft. I also need a seat belt extender which is another airline indicator for disallowing a passenger from using an exit row seat. Cabin crew don’t listen to reason though, they stick with their hard and fast rules. I can understand not being allowed in the window seat but why do I get barred from the middle and aisle seats ? After all, it’s the window seat passenger who is going to operate the door, not me !
    Last edited by brianw999; 04-17-2019 at 11:08 AM.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •