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  • Originally posted by elaw View Post
    Uh... yeah... but... all the boarding passes you reference should have the same person's name on them. If Jane Doe shows up at the gate with a boarding pass that says "Jane Doe" you let her onto the plane.
    No- it's NOT that simple.

    If they change planes/seating configurations on you between check in and departure.

    If you get canceled, re-routed, and by luck STILL make your connection (maybe IT got delayed)- your seat might have been released- and then they stick someone in it. Your cell phone while you are in ATL is probably accurate, but your paper pass from 5:00 AM in Fargo may not be accurate.

    I can easily see two folks with pieces of paper for the same seat.

    Now, all that being said- the barcode readers (ok the system behind them) OUGHT to be checking all of this and reconciling it.

    If the system were to work properly and your old boarding pass is no longer valid for your seat, as your barcode is scanned, the computer should set off extremely loud warning buzzers, and then the airport police will converge on you, taze you, handcuff you and take you off site to the county prison while the airline looks into the situation. This business of kicking folks off planes MUST STOP!
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by elaw View Post
      Have you ever used Microsoft software?
      Indeed!

      I love the new feature of "File", "Save", "Crash".
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • After I got a boarding pass with seat A, I can go to a kiosk and change my seat to B. Now seat A becomes available for someone else but I can still keep that old, now not current, boarding pass with my name and the seat A. However, that one,would be rejected when scanned a the gate for boarding. The only ways that this can happen then is that I scan the board in pass B and then try to seat in A showing the old one, or that I scan A, it gets rejected, but such signal is missed by the gate agent who lets me in.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

        Comment


        • Originally posted by elaw View Post
          Well... at age 50 you can join AARP. At 59-1/2 you can withdraw without penalty from retirement accounts. At age 60 you can benefit from the IRS "Tax Counseling for the Elderly" program. At age 62 you can receive Social Security retirement benefits. So it seems the federal government and others would say "yes".
          I challenge you to walk up to a 63yo woman and call her elderly. Let me know how it goes.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Evan View Post

            There is only one side to this story.
            I doubt that. If things went as far as an internal security review, including the airline demanding this 5'3" "elderly" woman explain herself or be banned from the carrier, I have a feeling more went on than we're being told. I can tell you I've seen seasoned citizens become a lot more aggressive than one might expect, particularly where adverse reactions to medications are involved. "We" all remember how quickly UA folded with Dao, they're not folding here, in fact, they seem to be going on the offensive, which tells me they have something on this sweet, little "elderly couple".

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ATLcrew (Sort of) View Post
              There are generally two sides to every story.
              I am with TeeVee on this: Body cams for all! (Of course there's also Adobe video editor for all too )

              I also note a lack of cell phone video and eyewitness comments...Maybe some do exist, but then maybe they don't support the story nor it's clickbait value?

              Originally posted by Evan
              There is

              1. only
              2. one

              side to this story.
              Captain binary has spoken. (Sentence ended with period)
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • not quite on topic, but im gonna steal a line from Gran Tour's (formerly Top Gear) Jeremy Clarkson: "How ridiculous! I can get on a train carrying 2000 people with ZERO security checks, but have to strip practically naked to get on a plane with less than 200!" (maybe not an exact quote)

                point is, society is obsessed with air security. OBSESSED! pathetically so. and truthfully, the only reason no one does shit about train security is $$$$. it's simply not financially feasible, so they run pretty much naked.

                the empowerment of cabin crew to make decisions was a huge step downward. i guess no one in charge realized or cared that they were already a fairly miserable bunch. can't say as i blame them too much though. work 6 hours and get paid for 3 is kinda shitty. but, then again, if they don't like the pay they should quit, or more likely, fire their lame ass union leaders and renegotiate their shitty contracts.

                while i'm on it, let's cut the bullshit about being here "primarily for your safety" bit. primarily they serve drinks and sometimes food. secondarily they market credit cards for the airline. tertiarily, they eject "dangerous" pax.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                  not quite on topic, but im gonna steal a line from Gran Tour's (formerly Top Gear) Jeremy Clarkson: "How ridiculous! I can get on a train carrying 2000 people with ZERO security checks, but have to strip practically naked to get on a plane with less than 200!" (maybe not an exact quote)

                  point is, society is obsessed with air security. OBSESSED! pathetically so. and truthfully, the only reason no one does shit about train security is $$$$. it's simply not financially feasible, so they run pretty much naked.

                  the empowerment of cabin crew to make decisions was a huge step downward. i guess no one in charge realized or cared that they were already a fairly miserable bunch. can't say as i blame them too much though. work 6 hours and get paid for 3 is kinda shitty. but, then again, if they don't like the pay they should quit, or more likely, fire their lame ass union leaders and renegotiate their shitty contracts.

                  while i'm on it, let's cut the bullshit about being here "primarily for your safety" bit. primarily they serve drinks and sometimes food. secondarily they market credit cards for the airline. tertiarily, they eject "dangerous" pax.
                  There is that small matter of just being able to stop the train if necessary.

                  Comment


                  • Cool, a train thread. For some entertainment, search YouTube for 'Railfans VS. Railroad police'.

                    There's lots of 'personalities' on both sides and much debate on what constitutes public access versus railroad controlled area...

                    ...AND all in the name of personal, crew and societal safety (and legal protection) AND anti-terrorism...

                    Oh, the parallels and ironing...
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                      There is that small matter of just being able to stop the train if necessary.
                      and do what exactly about the guy(s) on board with whatever, causing chaos? throw them off the train? shit. if the bad guys were smart...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                        I challenge you to walk up to a 63yo woman and call her elderly. Let me know how it goes.
                        I challenge you to walk up to an angry bull and call it an angry bull. If it ends badly, does that mean it was not an angry bull?
                        Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                        Eric Law

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                          and do what exactly about the guy(s) on board with whatever, causing chaos? throw them off the train? shit. if the bad guys were smart...
                          Also consider that stopping a train takes seconds or tens of seconds, whereas it takes tens of milliseconds for a bomb to explode.
                          Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                          Eric Law

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                            I doubt that. If things went as far as an internal security review, including the airline demanding this 5'3" "elderly" woman explain herself or be banned from the carrier, I have a feeling more went on than we're being told. I can tell you I've seen seasoned citizens become a lot more aggressive than one might expect, particularly where adverse reactions to medications are involved.
                            Yes, we've all seen that. Public overreacting. But we've all seen the other too: crew overreacting.

                            And I would say that it is the responsibility of the crew rather that the public to be appreciative, exercise empathy, and work to de-escalate the conflict instead of adding fuel to a pilot flame and make it a big fire that goes out of control.

                            Why? For a couple of reasons. 1st the public is very variable. There is no requirement that the public has to be of a certain personality, have certain psychological skills, certain emotional control, or certain education and training. All of that is required for the crew, who other than safety experts and waitresses are supposed to be customer service professionals, because they are dealing face to face with customers all the time. Second, because unlike the public, they are being paid to do exactly that (and guess who is paying them to do exactly that? Hint, it is not the airlines).

                            Sure, there are lines that cannot be crossed and situations that cannot be tolerated.

                            But it is very hard to me to see how this situation would have still happened had 1) the airline no let 2 persons board with the same seat assigned in the boarding pass and 2) if it happens, admit the situation and solve it. In particular, I don't see how this would have happened if they said "We apologize for the situation, but don't worry, we are going to fix it" and when the boarding passes got "lost", then declared "never existing" by the FA, and then found by another pax, the FA said "sorry, my mistake, but we are fixing it, you see that we already assigned a seat to the other passenger and you 2 can stay in your seats" (even if the elderly woman addressed her with less than respect, the tap in the shoulder was rather a push, and there were some shouting and even some insults involved).

                            And then the captain, he has a great opportunity to de-escalate, since he has not been involved in the issue before that and hence he can play from a "neutral" point of view.
                            Something like "I don't know what happened between you, but the original issue seems to be resolved, no harm was done, so let's look forward and have a pleasant flight, shall we?" And if the woman insists that she was treated badly, the captain can invite her to write a complaint letter to the airline, and he can even provide paper and pen and commit to make sure that it reaches the right hands. (and then, out of reach of the woman, tell the FA to prepare her own report because he is going to submit both together).

                            Even if the other person is NOT right, sometimes it is worth to pretend that they are if the conflict is already being solved. Whatever happened with "the customer is always right" and Jan Carlzon's "Moments of Truth" (which should be mandatory textbook for anybody interacting with passengers or customers in general). After all, if lawyers become involved, the airline will make a reasonable effort to reach a settlement even if they are right, because everybody knows that a bad agreement is generally better than a good trial.

                            In other words, grow some skin!!!

                            Now, can this have been a case where the "elderly couple" was really a risk for the safety of the crew or the flight? Hmmm, I cannot say that it is impossible, but we really need the other side of the stay behind reading between lines what it means that the airline is not folding here as they did with Dao.

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                              There is that small matter of just being able to stop the train if necessary.
                              Or the inability to crash it against your target of choice anywhere you want 1000 miles around.

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                                Originally posted by Evan View Post
                                There is only one side to this story.
                                I doubt that. If things went as far as an internal security review, including the airline demanding this 5'3" "elderly" woman explain herself or be banned from the carrier, I have a feeling more went on than we're being told. I can tell you I've seen seasoned citizens become a lot more aggressive than one might expect, particularly where adverse reactions to medications are involved. "We" all remember how quickly UA folded with Dao, they're not folding here, in fact, they seem to be going on the offensive, which tells me they have something on this sweet, little "elderly couple".
                                That may well be true, but if it is, United should start telling their side of the story. People can't pass judgement based on information they don't have. Well, they *shouldn't*.

                                Also is anyone disputing the fact this all started with the airline assigning two different people to the same seat? Regardless of what followed, that should not have happened.
                                Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                                Eric Law

                                Comment

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