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  • Should they have stayed on the ground?

    A plane load of SWA passengers claim they almost did died while trying to go to New Orleans with a squall line in the area.

    I don't think they entered Boeing Bobby forbidden red returns.

    ...that being said, you don't have to have rain or even clouds to have first class turbulence.

    Was this truly nasty turbulence or do we have a mass psychology event?

    Some media embellishment "at least one passenger got sick". OH THE NEAR TOTAL DISASTER!!!!!

    And, of course the airline PR department will craft a statement that says nothing...there will be no acknowledgement if turbulence was 'moderate'.

    I do see a good bit of burnt jet fuel...then again, you can't load passengers and park them out on a hold pad- lest THAT give you a PR disaster.



    I guess I'm going to fault the media on this one...it probably was a good decision AT THE TIME to take off...and it was probably just some honest turbulence and holding and yeah, someone got sick. Oh, one other no win scenario- What might the pilots say on the PA..."Hey folks, this is no big deal, never mind the tornado warnings on your smart phones, and that we're sitting the FA's down...this is just some fun bumps from some passing rain showers".
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Evan View Post
      I was thinking real-world three-class configuration.

      Wikipedia: The TriStar 500's maximum passenger capacity is 315, although no aircraft were operated with that number of seats. A typical two-class layout might include 21 first and 229 economy for a maximum of 250 passengers.

      I suppose the cattle-class airlines might squeeze 400 in there, but then they would never spring for that third engine.

      They say McD built the MD-11 because they were too financially strapped to clean-sheet a twinjet. But by then the three-holers were virtually obsolete.
      The -500 was the shorter fuselage long-range version.
      The other variants had a bigger cabin and were certified for 400 pax (by the emergency egress requirements).
      I don't know if any L-1011 ever operated with 400 pax seats, though.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

      Comment


      • Insane.

        She says she was saving the fruit for her onward flight, but was caught by a random US customs search.

        Comment


        • Agreed... but what does this have to do with airlines treating pax badly?
          Be alert! America needs more lerts.

          Eric Law

          Comment


          • Originally posted by elaw View Post
            Agreed... but what does this have to do with airlines treating pax badly?
            (Well, there's the part about individually wrapping apples in plastic bags. Airlines treating the planet badly...)

            But I mean the experience of flying today is just so insanely, bureaucratically, inhumanly bad because passenger-facing people are so ill-trained to deal with the most manageable conflicts.

            Comment


            • Ironingly, I think I did exactly the same thing a time or two (apples and stuff).

              What's interesting, at Puerto Rico where there is some stuff you don't want hauled back, there's some fairly rigorous inspections BEFORE you leave.

              But those dang Apples from Europe...ya know, they are responsible for the downfall of mankind!

              Yeah, I guess it would be good if the airline said something ON THE PA about how the applies can cost you $500 (or maybe they do). It is there in writing, but the font is pretty small. And, maybe they shouldn't give out forbidden fruit? And yeah, do the airlines really quarantine and incinerate the biohazard apples before handing the trash off to the rampies?

              Of course some of the better one liners is: It would be nice if they screened terrorists as vigorously as they screened apples.

              And one other thought for the day. Isn't Evan on another thread calling for MORE government oversight? While you may say it's and apples-to-turbine-blades comparison, this is sorta how the government works.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • This is a border entry issue and it is well known if you have a global entry pass. They made it crystal clear to me when I got one that if you bring ANY food with you, you must check that box on the little customs form. When in doubt check the form. Border control is the embodiment of bureaucracy. This is the passengers fault for not paying attention.

                I could go on for days talking about border control problems since I have many decades experience with them.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
                  This is the passengers fault for not paying attention.
                  Agree 100%!

                  Form / customs agent asked "do you have any fruits or vegetables?". Passenger who was carrying fruit said "no". Passenger is stupid. Or maybe to be a little nicer, half-asleep from just having spent X hours on an airplane.

                  Granted $500 is probably excessive for that particular transgression, but failure of the person to correctly answer an extremely simple question is what started this.
                  Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                  Eric Law

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
                    ***This is the passengers fault for not paying attention.***
                    Gonna side with Evan for a moment...

                    The average passenger... not a diamond smuggler, not smuggling illegal drugs, not a terrorist, you get a government form with all sorts of questions about what you are bringing back and it's monetary value/tax evasion...

                    And the airline gives you an apple and you have a three hour layover...

                    Just help folks out a little...It really doesn't hurt that badly to give out something that is NOT an agricultural biohazard (Heck, I'd question why the airline is flying such awful things to the US anyway- again-does the airport autoclave or incinerate the apple cores as an agricultural biohazard?). And why not give a very clear warning on the PA? A big sign that says "inspection for smuggled apples ahead, dispose of contraband fruit here"...?

                    Bottom line repeated: Just help folks a little...
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                    Comment


                    • The airline is the snake that tempts mankind with the forbidden fruit, and the snake is Satan... Apply the transitive property. You know.. rock wins over scissors, scissors wins over paper, so rock wins over paper. Oh, wait a second...

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                        Just help folks a little...
                        Bravo.

                        This is the crux of everything this thread is about. People get confused by the myriad complexities of a system built largely through corporate and governmental improvisation. They can't be expected not to get confused by that.

                        Yet when a confused person violates a policy or does something contrary to the official procedure, they are punished for it.

                        The entire mentality is punitive. Just help them out...

                        This is exactly what is wrong with a) the airline industry and b) society itself these days.

                        So what is the right thing to do? Inform the person that the apple is forbidden. Briefly explain to them why it is forbidden. Confirm that they understand. Confiscate the apple. Send them on their way, now with an understanding to never again bring that free apple that you thought was ok because the airline gave it to you through customs because it represents an agricultural hazard. This is how a somewhat cool society functions. This is how a community sustains itself.

                        Now the guy with 100 rare Himalayan apples hidden in his suitcase—the guy for whom the law was written—bust him all you want.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          The entire mentality is punitive. Just help them out...

                          This is exactly what is wrong with a) the airline industry and b) society itself these days.
                          BRAVO to you. The big question is which came first...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                            BRAVO to you. The big question is which came first...
                            Actually, I blame snotty, know-it-all MBA's and a bit too much trust in "outsider thinking".

                            Of interest, might also be the decline in traditional religious values AND (DEAR GOD NO, I'm going to be non-PC) diversity in hiring practices.
                            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                              BRAVO to you. The big question is which came first...
                              Well... that punitive nature is as old as civilization itself, but had been evolving into something more constructive, more humanistic and forgiving and sympathetic, something more about community and individual respect, more about remediation than punishment... until about the time the Moral Majority showed up, shortly after deregulation, on the cusp of the Reagan Era. From that point on it seems to be every man for himself and every penny hunted down without regard for the commonwealth, every corner cut with no sense of communal pride, and a general regression to punitive instincts as a way of coping with the horror of it all. The Enlightenment is a bell curve, as it turns out, with the American Constitution sitting somewhere near the top and 2018 clutching to the far slope, the place where democracy destroys itself and capitalism consumes itself.

                              But air travel has never been safer, so no worries.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                                Well... that punitive nature is as old as civilization itself, but had been evolving into something more constructive, more humanistic and forgiving and sympathetic, something more about community and individual respect, more about remediation than punishment... until about the time the Moral Majority showed up, shortly after deregulation, on the cusp of the Reagan Era. From that point on it seems to be every man for himself and every penny hunted down without regard for the commonwealth, every corner cut with no sense of communal pride, and a general regression to punitive instincts as a way of coping with the horror of it all. The Enlightenment is a bell curve, as it turns out, with the American Constitution sitting somewhere near the top and 2018 clutching to the far slope, the place where democracy destroys itself and capitalism consumes itself.

                                But air travel has never been safer, so no worries.
                                https://local.theonion.com/warden-fi...e-n-1825529856
                                Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                                Eric Law

                                Comment

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