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Thread: The United debarcle

  1. #261
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Does your new enlightenment also see that us customers have lowered our standards of what is a decent and acceptable way to treat gate agents?
    Indeed. So it's a question of who started it (don't bother).

    But only one side is profiting from the experience. The other side is paying for it. Makes a difference in the expectations department.

  2. #262
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    But only one side is profiting from the experience. The other side is paying for it. Makes a difference in the expectations department.
    I would say that if you are paying for it it is because you see value on it. As much value as price, minimum. So both parties are profiting, in different ways.
    The truth is that "we" don't care about quality or customer service, we just google "find me the cheapest flight from A to B" and click the first one in the list sorted by price low to high. Training costs money. Better workers cost money. Worker retention costs money. Worker incentives cost money. Better managers cost money. Better process engineers cost money. Newer computers and software development cost money. But we are not willing to pay for any of that.

    Oh, until we are affected by poor quality or customer service. Then we rant.

    "We" have what "we" deserve. Because if a company wants to do better, it goes out of the business. "We" send them chapter 11.

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  3. #263
    Super Moderator brianw999's Avatar
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    I am one of those lying, cheating wheelchair users that you speak of. I have bone-on-bone arthritis in both knees which means that I am in constant 7/10 pain when doing anything other than sitting. That pain is despite using Tramadol which is one step down from Morphine. I have to use wheelchair assistance to get to the gate from the lounge because I quite simply cannot walk more than 50 metre without being in extreme pain and suffering locked knees. Despite all that I will still offer to walk, albeit slowly from the gate to the aircraft despite the extra pain in order to avoid causing problems with the loading process at the aircraft.
    What do I get for thinking of others ? I get loud comments like "Look at that asshole. He gets disabled assistance from the lounge because he's too lazy to walk but then he walks to the aircraft"
    Well, fuck you pal. When we land I'll use the chair all the way and make every attempt to take a chunk out of your ankles.
    Until they have a disability themselves most people have no idea what it's like and the negative impact on our lives. Putting your socks on in the morning is a simple thing isn't it ? ....but it's something that I can't do without having either someone to do it for me or using a handy little device that helps with that simple function.
    Believe me, being in a wheelchair is no fun. Able bodied people seem to take no notice, they are generally switched off with their noses buried in their phones or iPads and in their own little world of "I don't give a fuck about anyone else"

    Rant over (for now !)
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  4. #264
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I would say that if you are paying for it it is because you see value on it. As much value as price, minimum. So both parties are profiting, in different ways.
    The truth is that "we" don't care about quality or customer service, we just google "find me the cheapest flight from A to B" and click the first one in the list sorted by price low to high. Training costs money. Better workers cost money. Worker retention costs money. Worker incentives cost money. Better managers cost money. Better process engineers cost money. Newer computers and software development cost money. But we are not willing to pay for any of that.
    Which is why we need pricing regulations that avoid this race to the bottom. You are wrong, many of us ARE willing to pay more for a little respect, especially since we know it will probably add $25 to the price. And don't kid yourself; the airlines are profiting quite nicely and WOULD reinvest more of that profit into the quality of their people if they had to deal with significant COMPETITION.

    "We" have what "we" deserve.
    We have the government we deserve, or lack of government rather. We need pricing regulation and a Justice Dept that doesn't take bribes and greenlight mega-mergers that amount to monopolies.

    But we elect populist clowns. It's a downward spiral.

  5. #265
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    I am one of those lying, cheating wheelchair users that you speak of. I have bone-on-bone arthritis in both knees which means that I am in constant 7/10 pain when doing anything other than sitting. That pain is despite using Tramadol which is one step down from Morphine. I have to use wheelchair assistance to get to the gate from the lounge because I quite simply cannot walk more than 50 metre without being in extreme pain and suffering locked knees. Despite all that I will still offer to walk, albeit slowly from the gate to the aircraft despite the extra pain in order to avoid causing problems with the loading process at the aircraft.
    What do I get for thinking of others ? I get loud comments like "Look at that asshole. He gets disabled assistance from the lounge because he's too lazy to walk but then he walks to the aircraft"
    Well, fuck you pal. When we land I'll use the chair all the way and make every attempt to take a chunk out of your ankles.
    Until they have a disability themselves most people have no idea what it's like and the negative impact on our lives. Putting your socks on in the morning is a simple thing isn't it ? ....but it's something that I can't do without having either someone to do it for me or using a handy little device that helps with that simple function.
    Believe me, being in a wheelchair is no fun. Able bodied people seem to take no notice, they are generally switched off with their noses buried in their phones or iPads and in their own little world of "I don't give a fuck about anyone else"

    Rant over (for now !)
    having spent 5 months in a wheelchair and not being able to bear any weight on my right foot, i know the drill. re-read my post if need be. my bitching is aimed at people abusing the system. you, like my mum, are not abusing the system, nor are anyone else who really need the assistance. however, when you can walk around just fine, carrying a large bag and dragging a loaded roll-aboard, you should NOT be granted pre-boarding simply because you asked for a wheelchair to take you on a mile long trek from check-in to gate.

  6. #266
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    Well, fuck you pal. When we land I'll use the chair all the way and make every attempt to take a chunk out of your ankles.
    Way to elicit empathy.

  7. #267
    Super Moderator brianw999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    Way to elicit empathy.
    I'm talking about the people who don't have any care or empathy in the first place. The ones who are only interested in themselves. I have spent half of my life as a paramedic looking after others. The job and the physical stresses that go with it are the reason that I am in such poor physical shape now. It's my turn now for some comfort in my retirement.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  8. #268
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Indeed. So it's a question of who started it (don't bother).

    But only one side is profiting from the experience. The other side is paying for it. Makes a difference in the expectations department.
    Thank you for the indeed. We shall agree to disagree that a little yelling is reasonable when the crowd starts surging and being non-compliant.

    Brian...dude...chill...yeah, the human race sucks...folks fake it to cheat...then you- who truly need it- get crap from OTHER ass holes. Please let this forum be a place where valid comments from both sides can be heard...yeah, it's BS that you get crap, and I like the human race less and less.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  9. #269
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    having spent 5 months in a wheelchair and not being able to bear any weight on my right foot, i know the drill. re-read my post if need be. my bitching is aimed at people abusing the system. you, like my mum, are not abusing the system, nor are anyone else who really need the assistance. however, when you and your family of six can walk around just fine, all carrying a large bag and all dragging a loaded roll-aboard, you should NOT be granted pre-boarding simply because you asked for a wheelchair to take you on a mile long trek from check-in to gate.
    Fixed.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    I'm talking about the people who don't have any care or empathy in the first place. The ones who are only interested in themselves. I have spent half of my life as a paramedic looking after others. The job and the physical stresses that go with it are the reason that I am in such poor physical shape now. It's my turn now for some comfort in my retirement.
    I'd think being something in the neighborhood of 400lbs (by your own account) has been a lot harder on your knees than being a paramedic...

    You don't sound terribly "comfortable in your retirement".

  11. #271
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Default Lay off the airlines...

    Corporate greed hurting ATLcrew's latte experience...

    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/b...144100030.html
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Corporate greed hurting ATLcrew's latte experience...https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/b...144100030.html
    Thankfully, most airport locations are licensed to other companies and are not directly controlled by Fourbucks, but the news are, nevertheless, troubling.

  13. #273
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    Well, I supposed 3WE has gone off to make more popcorn... I'm trying to figure out what the hell this argument has to do with a passenger who was not endangering the safety of a flight in any way, or even being 'unruly'. He was just refusing to give up his seat since, as the airline had his money, he felt entitled to sit there. BoeingBobby, I completely agree that no passenger should defy the order of the flight crew on any issue that is not a violation of basic business ethics and human dignity, but this was. If I was in his place I'm pretty sure I would have deplaned and taken it up with the gate agent (who would probably have split by then), but then, I think this guy was a bit more courageous than I am, or than anyone of us is. It always takes someone courageous enough to stand up to injustice before injustice can be overcome.

  14. #274
    Super Moderator brianw999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    I'd think being something in the neighborhood of 400lbs (by your own account) has been a lot harder on your knees than being a paramedic...

    You don't sound terribly "comfortable in your retirement".
    336 lbs actually.
    I started in 1980 when just about every patient got carried. There were no lifting aids, just manually loaded chairs and stretchers. If you tried to make someone walk who had maybe a broken arm then management climbed all over you and threatened disciplinary action. We rarely got a mealbreak which as the years went by got worse. When we did eat it was 30 mins with another call waiting bang on the last minute. We were regularly late off duty. In later years this got worse with a 12 hour shift regularly extending to 14 or 15 hours. It is an accepted and proven fact that of the staff who reach retirement age of 65, 20% will be dead within 2 years.
    So yes, I'm not terribly comfortable in my retirement. At least I beat the 20% dead statistic. These days I check for a pulse in the morning and if I find one, I get out of bed. !!!
    Working in the emergency services is immensely satisfying, but they are killers.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    So yes, I'm not terribly comfortable in my retirement. At least I beat the 20% dead statistic. These days I check for a pulse in the morning and if I find one, I get out of bed. !!!Working in the emergency services is immensely satisfying, but they are killers.
    As one of my older friends says "if you're over 50, and you wake up feeling no pain anywhere, you're probably dead".

  16. #276
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    As one of my older friends says "if you're over 50, and you wake up feeling no pain anywhere, you're probably dead".
    Except for the "you wake up" part, that is...

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  17. #277
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Except for the "you wake up" part, that is...


    Within the context of many religions it's valid.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  18. #278
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Default Today's Incident

    The unfriendly skies strike again.

    http://www.stltoday.com/business/mus...bff3942f7.html

    Asking for video does seem to stir up airline folks...surprised they didn't zip tie her. I checked the ticket back COC I posted earlier...yep...nothing says you can try to bring a violin on board.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  19. #279
    Super Moderator brianw999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    The unfriendly skies strike again.

    http://www.stltoday.com/business/mus...bff3942f7.html

    Asking for video does seem to stir up airline folks...surprised they didn't zip tie her. I checked the ticket back COC I posted earlier...yep...nothing says you can try to bring a violin on board.
    United strikes again. I had a soft camera bag containing in excess of £5,000 worth of equipment as cabin baggage which a gate agent tried to take off of me and put in the hold. I refused and luckily the Captain walked by while we were arguing. Even more luckily, he was a photography enthusiast as well. He told the gate agent to allow the bag into the cabin. The gate agent started to argue until the Captain closely studied the agents ID badge, fixed him with a steely glare and said, very firmly "IT....GOES...IN....THE...CABIN"
    Which airline was this I hear you asking ?......United strikes again. Thank God for a sensible Captain.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  20. #280
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
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    from the untied website:

    Musical instruments

    Depending on their size, musical instruments can be carried on board, handled as checked baggage, or carried as cabin-seat baggage.

    In the case of customers who purchased a Basic Economy ticket, a small musical instrument may be carried on instead of a small personal item, subject to the same conditions below. A larger musical instrument that does not fit in the overhead bin and is brought to the gate will be checked to your final destination and subject to the applicable checked baggage fees plus a $25 gate handling charge.
    As carry-on

    As part of the allowance of one carry-on bag plus one personal item, a passenger may carry a violin, guitar or other small musical instrument onboard the aircraft if:

    The instrument can be stowed in the overhead bin or under the seat in front of the passenger; and
    There is space for stowage at the time when the passenger boards the aircraft

    Musical instruments transported onboard United and United Express aircraft must be in hard-shell cases.
    As checked baggage

    An instrument should be packed in a hard-shell case to keep it protected during normal handling. Excess checked baggage service charges may apply if the customer is checking more than two items. Oversize charges apply to musical instruments that measure 63 - 115 linear inches. Overweight charges apply to musical instruments that are over 50 pounds, but musical instruments weighing up to 165 pounds will be accepted. If the instrument is over 115 linear inches, please contact the United Customer Contact Center.

    Additionally, customers should loosen the strings on stringed instruments to protect the neck against damage caused by expansion and contraction, which can result from temperature variations during flight.

    See our Checked Baggage page for additional information about checking items.
    As cabin-seat baggage

    United will allow a customer to purchase a seat for a musical instrument that is too fragile or bulky to be handled as checked baggage.

    Excess Valuation may not be purchased for musical instruments.

    See our Cabin-seat Baggage page for more information on purchasing a seat for a fragile or bulky item.

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