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Thread: Replacement of Austrian Typhoons

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    Default Replacement of Austrian Typhoons

    Austria is considering to get rid of the Eurofighter Typhoons. The reasons are the maintenance costs and the upcoming upgrade costs (all Typhoons are of Trache 1). As the Saab 105 will be retired by 2020 they soon need a replacement.

    According to the article (only in german, sorry) 19 models are potential replacements. Among these: F-16, Saab Gripen and Dassualt Rafale.


    http://diepresse.com/home/innenpolit...ft?xtor=CS1-15


    Does anybody know what the other options are? Maybe even some Russian models (Suchoi, MiG)?
    Does it make much sense to replace the Typhoon with the F-16 or Rafale? I assume costs are similar, right?

    Best,
    Peter

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    Senior Member B757300's Avatar
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    Well, Austria is also investigating EADS for fraud over the Eurofighter deal so there is probably a lot more to it than just costs.

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/...ion-probe.html

    As for what might replace it, I would imagine the F-18 is on the list and perhaps the F-35 but it's probably very unlikely. Boeing might try to market an F-15 variant, but it's probably a no go as well unless Boeing sells it super cheap. If they want to go outside of western nations, probably the MIG-29/35 or some kind of Sukhoi Su-27 variant (SU-30/35/37).

    If I had to guess, I'd say they'll go with the Gripen.

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    Ah, it's on Fox News. It must be true and accurate reporting then !
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    Ah, it's on Fox News. It must be true and accurate reporting then !
    That's called "Alternative facts" nowadays

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    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB View Post
    Austria is considering to get rid of the Eurofighter Typhoons. The reasons are the maintenance costs and the upcoming upgrade costs (all Typhoons are of Trache 1). As the Saab 105 will be retired by 2020 they soon need a replacement.

    According to the article (only in german, sorry) 19 models are potential replacements. Among these: F-16, Saab Gripen and Dassualt Rafale.


    http://diepresse.com/home/innenpolit...ft?xtor=CS1-15


    Does anybody know what the other options are? Maybe even some Russian models (Suchoi, MiG)?
    Does it make much sense to replace the Typhoon with the F-16 or Rafale? I assume costs are similar, right?

    Best,
    Peter
    (only in german, sorry)
    That's a very rare excuse, but I like it. More common is, afaik: be aware, this weblink only exists in French. And I don't know it exactly, but I feel that 'Step back, the following sentences are in German' is slightly more often accepted than the French version. Don't ask me why!

    Back on topic. I know that I've published here a comparison between a Lear 35, a Falcon F 16 and a Bombardier CR7.

    Btw, are you serious, you try to replace the Eurofighter (inauguration 2006) by the Falcon F 16, which is approx six months younger than me?! Well, that seems like a sign. So, let me add the Eurofighter to the comparison.

    Eurofighter - 2 x 60 for 24 - the ratio exactly is 5:1, which definitely is stronger than a Lear 35.
    Falcon F16 - 1 x 76 for 19 - the ratio exactly is 4:1

    I like your idea. Not 900 PS in a VW Beetle are important, but... reliability and a maintenance crew who trusts the a/c since... 1978, in case of the F 16, or

    since 1970, in case of the first LH 747 (a B741). I love your idea!
    One evening, not long ago, I watched TV and I wondered what you will possibly do after you've lost one parent. Strange question, why did I wonder. You will possibly be annoyed because he will miss so many happenings which you liked to show him. But after you somehow have regained your countenance, you will also join again people who you don't know. Stay strong, Jimmy.

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years.

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    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Am I allowed to be off topic for one second?

    4 x 276 for 397 - the ratio is .. 2,78 : 1 ? This number starts to slightly scare me...

    She seems to be a lame duck. But probably only with military standards in the background! Nevertheless, I love her, since she's been inaugurated (1989) ...
    One evening, not long ago, I watched TV and I wondered what you will possibly do after you've lost one parent. Strange question, why did I wonder. You will possibly be annoyed because he will miss so many happenings which you liked to show him. But after you somehow have regained your countenance, you will also join again people who you don't know. Stay strong, Jimmy.

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years.

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    They would not get the Mig-29, because maintenance costs would be even higher. Range is also insufficient, though Austria is a small country and it would work for air defense missions (but who is the threat).
    The Mig-35 doesn't really exist since India said they didn't want it.
    I don't see why the SU-27/30/35 would make sense for Austria either, again, because of maintenance costs and some related issues (reported in Belarus's fleet). I also think Austria would like to stick with NATO's standards and stay compatible.

    The F-35 is probably an overkill. It might make sense to save some money and get the Gripen (which should also have the lowest maintenance cost).
    The Rafale is more capable but it would cost more. New Eurofighters might also be an option (if they cost less to maintain than their current versions). The Eurofighter is great at air-air and more lacking in air-ground and reconnaissance, while the Rafale is better at air-ground.
    F-16s and Super Hornets are also a good option. Yes, the F-16 still manages to stay competitive capability-wise and is a plane that can do it all. Maintenance and operation should cost less than for the F/A-18, but still higher than for the Gripen. Also, I can think of at least two countries that neighbor Austria (Czech Republic and Hungary) that operate the Gripen.

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    Found this interesting read:

    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/aus...s-e24649385bf3


    Basically even the Eurofighter is an overkill, which leads to problems.

  10. #10
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Ram View Post
    They would not get the Mig-29,
    [...]
    The F-35 is probably an overkill.
    [...]
    F-16s and Super Hornets are also a good option. Yes, the F-16 still manages to stay competitive capability-wise and is a plane that can do it all. Maintenance and operation should cost less than for the F/A-18, but still higher than for the Gripen. Also, I can think of at least two countries that neighbor Austria (Czech Republic and Hungary) that operate the Gripen.
    So, in general, you second the positive opinion about the F-16 Falcon?

    Well, let me count, the threadstarter, you n me, 3 people who think that the typhoon (which seems to be the English name or nickname for the Eurofighter jet) can be replaced with a type that has been inaugurated in 1978.

    My question would've been, is the Falcon still in production? The answer is the same as for the B747, yes, it is.

    So.. I like jets which (of course with technical updates) exist as long as I exist!
    One evening, not long ago, I watched TV and I wondered what you will possibly do after you've lost one parent. Strange question, why did I wonder. You will possibly be annoyed because he will miss so many happenings which you liked to show him. But after you somehow have regained your countenance, you will also join again people who you don't know. Stay strong, Jimmy.

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years.

  11. #11
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    ... And If I understand you, the problem is not "1 engine vs 2 engines"? So, it is not "F35 vs Typhoon"? I agree.

    In civil aviation, there sometimes is such a discussion. Are transatlantic flights possible with less than 4 engines. Yes of course.

    But not only the biggest passenger jet on Earth owns 4 engines.

    Also the second biggest passenger jet on Earth owns 4 engines. And transatlantic flights are not "the biggest problem" in civil aviation. We should ask the flyin kangaroos, keyword: 5,000 nautical miles and much much more (the real long haul) ..

    The a/c must be appropriate for the purpose, also in military aviation. And if a F16 Falcon does it, why then a F35..
    Inaugurated 1978, I really love it.
    One evening, not long ago, I watched TV and I wondered what you will possibly do after you've lost one parent. Strange question, why did I wonder. You will possibly be annoyed because he will miss so many happenings which you liked to show him. But after you somehow have regained your countenance, you will also join again people who you don't know. Stay strong, Jimmy.

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years.

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