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Thread: Engine failure on Air Asia X Flight D7237

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    Default Engine failure on Air Asia X Flight D7237

    A passenger says an AirAsia X plane was shaking like a "washing machine" when it experienced a problem with its engine, and was forced to turn back mid-flight to Perth.

    ...

    "There was sort of a bang, and you could see the cabin crew were startled, and then a shudder started straight away, and I had a sense the plane was turning around." Mr Parry said the captain made an announcement shortly after, saying there appeared to have been an engine seizure.
    http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austra...QJk?li=AAgfIYZ

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Mr Parry said the captain made an announcement shortly after, saying there appeared to have been an engine seizure
    .

    Unfortunately, no, there hadn't been an engine seizure, so the shut down engine continued to windmill in a damaged, unbalanced condition and shake the bejeezus out of everyone all the way back down. At least that what it looks like from here. You can shut off the fuel and ignition, but you can't stop it from turning.

    But why call for brace on landing? And the Australians prepared for a ditching. Was the vibration causing serious control issues? On an aircraft designed for severe turbulence, how does continuous severe vibration affect safety? Are aircraft certified to fly extended operations with an out-of-balance engine? They need to be...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    .

    Unfortunately, no, there hadn't been an engine seizure, so the shut down engine continued to windmill in a damaged, unbalanced condition and shake the bejeezus out of everyone all the way back down. At least that what it looks like from here. You can shut off the fuel and ignition, but you can't stop it from turning.

    But why call for brace on landing? And the Australians prepared for a ditching. Was the vibration causing serious control issues? On an aircraft designed for severe turbulence, how does continuous severe vibration affect safety? Are aircraft certified to fly extended operations with an out-of-balance engine? They need to be...
    According to one of the passengers it may have been a blade failure.

    Passenger Brenton Atkinson, 24, said the whole plane started shaking, far more than standard turbulence. "It was essentially the engine seized up I think, that's what they told us anyway," he said.


    "It was literally like you were sitting on top of a washing machine. The whole thing was going. We could see the engine out the window which was really shaken on the wing."


    "Once we landed we realised one of the blades had actually come off the turbine."
    http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austra...QJk?li=AAgfLCP

    Here is the AvHerald report, which includes some inflight video.

    http://avherald.com/h?article=4aac9f14&opt=256

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Reports are saying the captain asked the passengers to pray, twice, after an inflight engine shutdown.

    You wouldn't get me on an AirAsia flight for all the tea in Thailand.

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    We need to push that airliners be fitted with engine jettisoning systems...(using guarded switches, of course).
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    We need to push that airliners be fitted with engine jettisoning systems...(using guarded switches, of course).
    They have and it is automatic. It is called shear pin. If it didn't let go, it's because this vibration was within what is tolerable for the structure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    .
    ....................... Are aircraft certified to fly extended operations with an out-of-balance engine? They need to be...
    I worked on an aircraft that was flight tested using a flutter exciter on its wing; the video showed significant vibration. I do not know if the technique is used on commercial aircraft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    They have and it is automatic. It is called shear pin. If it didn't let go, it's because this vibration was within what is tolerable for the structure.
    If it did let go would that be it? dead plane?
    is there some indication in the cockpit of the load on the shear pin...or was it guess work?
    and why didnt they land closer? was it to get it to an engineering station or simply the runway length of closer airports?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    They have and it is automatic. It is called shear pin. If it didn't let go, it's because this vibration was within what is tolerable for the structure.
    You can ask El Al about those wonderful shear pins.

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    That really should be "pin", not "pins"... as one pin failed once. Leaving an aircraft that was flyable and controllable for several minutes, and might well have been brought to a safe landing if the crew had recognized damage to the flight-control systems earlier.

    Contrast that to the Lockheed Electra which had engines that could not cleanly separate when they failed, resulting in loss of part or all of one of the aircraft's wings in several cases. I'll admit I've never tried it, but I've heard that aircraft that are missing significant portions of their wings are especially difficult to control.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    You can ask El Al about those wonderful shear pins.
    Redesigned after that investigation. I'm not aware of any properly installed engines detaching from commercial aircraft during flight since then. The threshold is set below what would cause the wing structure to fail, but probably way above what this flight was experiencing.

    So I guess we need 3WE's guarded switch after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I'm not aware of any properly installed engines detaching from commercial aircraft during flight since then.
    AA587. Both engines detached. But they were not the first thing to detach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    AA587. Both engines detached. But they were not the first thing to detach.
    I'm not aware of any properly installed engines detaching from commercial aircraft during controlled flight within the envelope since then.

    In the case of AA587, the engines detached to save the wings, but nothing could save the aircraft from the pilot flying.

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    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    "properly installed"
    Good move. You neutralized my AA 191 counterattack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I'm not aware of any properly installed engines detaching from commercial aircraft during controlled flight within the envelope since then.

    In the case of AA587, the engines detached to save the wings, but nothing could save the aircraft from the pilot flying.
    Maybe my recollection is wrong but I recall engines detaching from 707 aircraft including one near Heathrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highkeas View Post
    Maybe my recollection is wrong but I recall engines detaching from 707 aircraft including one near Heathrow.

    There have been a couple of 747-200's that shed engines over the years. http://www.aero-news.net/annticker.c...7-c6331178b17a

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    There have been a couple of 747-200's that shed engines over the years. http://www.aero-news.net/annticker.c...7-c6331178b17a
    Like I said, yes, the early Boeings had a bit of a problem (and the B52 tended to drop them like ripe fruit) but that problem was fixed by the early nineties. I dare you to try and rattle off one of those cans now. Ok, maybe not.

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