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Thread: Choas at Heathrow 12/10/17

  1. #1
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    Default Choas at Heathrow 12/10/17

    On Sunday (10 Dec 2017) I was scheduled to fly BA0219 direct to Denver. Sat on board 747 at the gate for 6 hours during which time the adjacent 747 was deiced twice in a total time of 3-hours. Our aircraft was still not deiced when the crews flight time was insufficient to crew the flight. The flight was cancelled. After debarking we found that most other flights into and out of LHR were cancelled. Reason was freezing snow/sleet/rain that really snarled airport operations.
    Spent the night in a nearby hotel and flew out Monday on AA via Charlotte; a very circuitous route to Denver.

    All gates were occupied by aircraft and aircraft that landed that morning were sitting wherever there was space without a gate to deboard passengers - I heard that some arriving passenger were stranded for several hours.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ghts-diverted/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTEGoDJxiRk

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    Junior Member rayrton08's Avatar
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    I hope not to go through something similar

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    Senior Member brianw999's Avatar
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    1 inch of snow and/or freezing conditions and the UK grinds to a halt.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


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    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Again, I'm not able to find better words. If even a man who almost lives on LHR perceives that during late autumn this airport is not the best we can find...
    [Winter on my calendar begins not before December 20th.]

    But since England has such a good soccer team, in comparison to.., I'll stay silent!

    German airports, at least the three biggest ones, EDDF, EDDM and EDDL, are not so thin-skinned when snow falls. But even in Germany, and even for LH-B744s there are limits.
    When the snow does not stop to fall, here we also have our limits.

    What a topic on a nice summer weekend.. !

    PS: Where was I, last December? I'm sure that most of the time I was near my home airport! So, let's discuss this topic again next December.. Or does somebody want to discuss the number of de-icing positions on his home airport, in the mid of the Summer?
    Tomorrow, there is a better question. France or Croatia? The soccer god is not always fair, but, if he were.. The very first title in the World..

    Dobro vece!
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LH-B744 View Post
    ...…………………. Or does somebody want to discuss the number of de-icing positions on his home airport, in the mid of the Summer?
    …………………..
    Winter type weather is on its way for Colorado. Here is how Denver International Airport deals with swnow and ice.
    https://www.flydenver.com/about/press_kit/snow_removal

    Good news is that Ski resorts are already open (a lot of visitors fly in for skiing).

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    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highkeas View Post
    Winter type weather is on its way for Colorado. Here is how Denver International Airport deals with swnow and ice.
    https://www.flydenver.com/about/press_kit/snow_removal

    Good news is that Ski resorts are already open (a lot of visitors fly in for skiing).
    I've just thought about something like a traffic light for EDDL which I could install here in my signature.
    Green would stand for... good or at least tolerable flying weather (IFR), all rws snow free. Zero snowfall.
    Red would stand for... clearly more than 1 flight per hour cancelled. Snowfall or delay due to weather.

    But I'm not able to make something like that. However, due to EDDL METAR TAF, I'd set a green light for this Friday.

    PS: In Austria, there seem to be some 'very red lights' this week! Too Bad that we don't have an aviation enthusiast from Austria. Or do we. Oh cum on mates. I know at least three men who are nearer to LOWI than me. Or, if I'm the class spokesman for all airports between Hamburg, Vienna and Rome, what's the salary for such a position?

    LOWI METAR TAF until Saturday.. during daylight -2°C, over night -5, zero snowfall for friday. daylight +3°C, over night -3°C, new snowfall for saturday. And I've just 'telephoned' with LOWI,
    OS 915 to Vienna until now is without remarks, so I'd say they are able to take off on time.

    So, this seems like a green light, at least for this Friday at LOWI... Info is subject to change for Saturday.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  7. #7
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highkeas View Post
    [...]

    Good news is that Ski resorts are already open (a lot of visitors fly in for skiing).
    Ah, so that are the things which happen on board of my avatar. Good to know that. Excuse me, but sometimes I need one or two minutes until I reach the really important airports..

    EDDF METAR TAF for this Friday. Currently zero degrees Celsius with light snowfall (0250 z). during daylight +3°C, over night zero °C, with light snowfall throughout Friday.
    daylight +6 and over night +4°C with rain for saturday. And I've just 'telephoned' with EDDF,
    LH 446 to Denver (type.. B744, what else) is delayed by 120 minutes, that's what they can say now.

    That clearly is a red light for this Friday at EDDF. Rhein/Main international airport informs every passenger for this friday about possible delays. Please contact your airline!

    Somewhere I have seen how many people emerge from such a rather big four engined jet.. It was a 15 people crew, F/Os and the captain included, if I didn't forget one. How do they reach their flight, in case of #446. With snowfall, flyin to Rhein/Main does not seem like the best option. So I like to say a prayer, let the highway be free..

    EDDF, Currently -1°C, snowfall has stopped for two or three minutes (0420 z).

    LH 073 to Rhein/Main has been cancelled. This seems to become a rather interesting friday..

    EDDL, Currently +2°C, still snow free, zero snowfall, but misty conditions and/or light rain, with a vis of 1.4 (nautical miles), i.e. you can't see the end of the 23L if you received clearance for t/o at the beginning of that rwy.. (110450Z)
    Here it rolls, interesting conditions, but still green light.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  8. #8
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    020620z 03003, no clouds below 1000, broken 3,500 and above, overcast 4,500 and above.

    temp: +1°C or 34°F. Some people say, light rain. Which I like to confirm, through my own eyes..... ...
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

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    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    LSZH, while my #8 was for my home airport, of course. So, Switzerland today.

    140750Z 27002 . That's not so much. Almost good for motor-gliders (dt.: motorisierte Gleitschirm-Flieger). If that weren't the European winter, with minus 2°C in Switzerland.
    (x °F - 32) x 5/9 = -2 °C

    Does anybody want to extract the x from that formula? I don't. The result is.. 28,4 °F , somebody told me.

    And there are (amateur) websites who still have not learned how to measure vis. Either in kilometer (for a/c who only fly in Germany and Switzerland), or in nautical miles, for friends who visit the German airspace in a DL-B764ER.

    Am I wrong? Nautical miles, not US miles. LSZH vis 3-4 (nautical miles). That seems to be ok. If you have more than half of a 10,000 ft rwy, then everything is fine.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  10. #10
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Back on topic. In December 2017, Heathrow had something like severe weather?

    EGLL 140820Z VRB01 . That's even less than 'not much'. I have a number when I wonder, should I open the umbrella or not. I don't always ask the EDDL Control Tower before I open an umbrella, but everything less than 08 is even nothing for an umbrella, isn't it.

    When Bft 4 ends and Bft 5 begins, then I wonder if my umbrella is able to survive, @ 27010 or more.

    Oh, but vis is not good in London today. Not much more than 1 (nautical mile). Misty conditions. Baro 3050. Temp +2°C. That seems like B747 weather.

    PS: Vis 1, is that the point when the F/O opens the cockpit window during pos 4 in the queue on the twy, to hear how far away pos 3 is? You should correct me, but if e.g. EDDL has completely switched to IFR, TCAS is also able to tell me to leave enough space between me and pos 3, also on the ground, isn't it?
    That's why there are conditions where the twys and rwys are still open with vis 1/2. That means 926 Meter Sichtweite. B747 weather.
    Last edited by LH-B744; 02-14-2019 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Vis 1... I've heard of vis 1/2, then it becomes interesting...
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

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