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Southwest Airlines Engine Failure, Passenger Near Sucked Out of the Aircraft

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
    Wasn't there an AA flight that crashed when the pilots took off from the wrong runway and crashed ran they ran out of length?
    Opps, not AA, but Comair.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
      Thank you. So more than 12 years. That is a REMARKABLE safety record.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • #33
        FYI-- passenger that died.

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        • #34
          So the deceased person was the one sitting next to the shattered window who was partially sucked out despite the fact that she had the seatbelt on.

          It will be interesting to understand what caused the death. I doubt very much that it was due to hypoxia or hypothermia.

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
            Is that a hole in the fuselage under the "t" of South? And I believe that the broken window is hidden by the winglet or further back out of frame.

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]15078[/ATTACH]
            Answering my own question: no. In other pictures it can bee seen that there is no hole there and that this black thing is a part of cowling (or something like that in the engine) bent upwards.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • #36
              I'd speculate it was either debris or possibly some physical injury from being partially sucked out of an aircraft doing a few hundred kts

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              • #37
                Here's a much better picture showing the broken window (the winglet was blocking it in other photos) and, sadly, what looks like blood spray on the inside of the 4 windows behind it.

                Click image for larger version

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by B757300 View Post
                  Here's a much better picture showing the broken window (the winglet was blocking it in other photos) and, sadly, what looks like blood spray on the inside of the 4 windows behind it.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]15081[/ATTACH]
                  I think it is on the outside because also the blue paint seems to be stained.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Evan View Post
                    ***he pilot called repeatedly for "brace". I suppose this is SOP for high-speed landings, or if there are controllabillity issues. They opted to land with flaps 5.***
                    You don't suppose this is standard procedure for landings when stuff might be broken?

                    Who knows if tires are ok, brakes, spoilers, some angle-brace strut, or even a left main shimmy damper.

                    And, God forbid it might be a fundamentally good idea for a compromised landing.

                    I thought you routinely recited emergency checklists, or is that an Airbus-only thing?
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      4 words guys, they need to hapen at the same time (it's an AND operator, not an OR):
                      American AND Jet AND Airliner AND Fatal accident.

                      Colgan lacks Jet, this Learjet lacks airliner.

                      Do we need to go as far back as AA587? (AA A300 that lost its fin taking off from JFK and crashed in Queens, more than 16 years ago)
                      Apologies Gabriel, you're absolutely right. I've just gone back and reviewed all prior accidents before 2018 and I'm thinking it's likely Comair Flight 5191
                      AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                      Originally posted by orangehuggy
                      the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        I thing it is on the outside because also the blue paint seems to be stained.
                        Yeah, I think you're right.

                        I'm not very good at posting on a phone and not always easy to see things. Didn't notice until now that I put "near" instead of "nearly."

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
                          AVHerald comments say the fan was still intact, with one broken blade.

                          Listening to ATC shows how professional the pilots were. The controller was more spooked and mixed up the runways several times.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKf7sfgSjjc
                          No Mayday, apparently. No indication to atc of decompression or a rapid emergency descent. She reports an engine fire and that she is descending, which I think could be misinterpreted as a drift down (but he does clear her down to 11,000). But she sounds very cool-headed about it, almost routine. I don't think atc is ever given a clear picture of the situation. I think he is both trying to vector her to the runway and trying to ascertian the scenario he is dealing with, hence the anxiety, mental distraction and runway misstatements. If the media makes her the new Sullenberger, she might face a similar level of backlash.

                          There is a passenger report that suggests that the window did not blow out immediately. Could a window with structural fatigue be prone to failure under rapid decompression? Maybe nothing hit that window at all...

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                            I thing it is on the outside because also the blue paint seems to be stained.

                            From CNN:

                            She died from blunt impact trauma of the head, neck and torso, a spokesman for the Philadelphia Department of Public Health said.
                            I can easily imagine neck and head lacerations from the edges of the window.

                            When I sit at the window my head often rests against it. I guess if I ever see the window cracking, I'll be sure to unbuckle get away from it as quickly as possible although if the airplane loses control after the explosion, being loose without a seatbelt isn't ideal either.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Evan View Post
                              No Mayday, apparently. No indication to atc of decompression or a rapid emergency descent. She reports an engine fire and that she is descending, which I think could be misinterpreted as a drift down (but he does clear her down to 11,000). But she sounds very cool-headed about it, almost routine. I don't think atc is ever given a clear picture of the situation. I think he is both trying to vector her to the runway and trying to ascertian the scenario he is dealing with, hence the anxiety, mental distraction and runway misstatements. If the media makes her the new Sullenberger, she might face a similar level of backlash.

                              There is a passenger report that suggests that the window did not blow out immediately. Could a window with structural fatigue be prone to failure under rapid decompression? Maybe nothing hit that window at all...
                              There are several people slamming the comms on avherald. One mistake is they all thought she was the PNF, when indeed she was flying the plane and talking to the tower. I think in the list of priorities it is aviate, navigate then communicate, so given she brought the plane down in one piece very quickly I'd say she prioritized the right things.

                              I'm also not sure how much ATC needs to know. It's feasible for me to believe the crew only told the pilots the bare minimum information they needed to fly the plane. Hole in the plane, missing parts on the engine. No fire, passengers injured. I don't think the pilots need much else info, maybe wing damaged.

                              If the plane seemed very flyable -- which seemed to be the case -- the pilot probably felt no need to declare full emergency. Listening to the early comms, the pilot thinks they have an engine fire, and had already initiated descent. I'll bet they hadn't even been briefed by crew yet.

                              I'm guessing she was doing the talking while the PNF was busy figuring out what was wrong and later was busy figuring out the extent of damage and how they should land the plane without compromising flyability at lower speeds. There was probably huge drag on the left side alongside with damaged leading edge and a bunch of unknowns. NTSB has already stated they know the aircraft banked left 40 degrees initially after the engine powered down. There are enough instances of planes crashing because they became unflyable after a period of stability long after they were damaged. I'm guessing they wanted to keep the speeds higher for landing and thus the rough landing passengers talked about.

                              All in all, I assess they did a good job of communicating. Post-hoc people often criticize inaccuracies in communication, but in the fog of war, they forget they have a perfect view of events when the people at the team almost certainly didn't.

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                              • #45
                                I do wish the ground knew the aircraft had depressurized (needing to be cleared to 10,000ft) and that the injuries to a passenger were grave instead of only knowing that some passengers are injured. That could mean bumps, sprained ankle, etc. Helps rescue to know more details so they can make decisions. BUT...with the level of noise in the cabin after losing the window combined with the cabin crew dealing with something as traumatic as a passenger being sucked out of the aircraft then being pulled back in with that level of injury, I feel it is totally understandable how communicating every detail to the flight crew is unreasonable and then the flight crew communicating every detail to ATC while dealing with saving the aircraft. I think the crew did an outstanding job, and I also was deeply impressed with the ATC crew. Listen to the tape and you will see one controller in particular did everything possible to take workload off the pilot so she could work the emergency on her aircraft. I also have to comment on the two men from Texas who saw this woman (one witness stated 'half her body was outside the aircraft') being sucked out, and chose to get involved. They fought to pull her back in. Imagine the family of this woman if she had gone completely out. I just wish the FAA had followed the lead of their Europe counterparts and ordered the inspection of the blades that the manufacturer had "recommended" a year ago.

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