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Thread: When you appeal....

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    I left you a message in the rejection email a short while ago.

    To repeat...both ends of the luminosity histogram need adjustment to correct the underexposure and also the low contrast.
    Thanks for your help

  2. #22
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    The answer I took for a photo I appealed last night;

    Your appeal for photo has been processed and has been rejected.
    Admin Comments >> hi, picture would really look better with the plane a bit lower in frame - kind regards

    -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------

    It was the most gentle, nice, kind answer I've ever had. I wanted to have more rejected photo: lol:

  3. #23
    Administrator Alex - Spot-This !'s Avatar
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    Nice and polite appeals = nice replies

    Just the opposite a few seconds ago, appeal reason : why (yes just why)....

    cheers
    Alex

  4. #24
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    About rejections and appeals:
    First, I assure everyone here that I was reading carefully all notes mentioned above.
    Through time with JP, I had a number of appeals, not a great number though. I do not remember any appeal accepted.
    Most times, the message / reply on the appeal was merely "appeal rejected", only twice (or three times the most, as I remember) a rejection on the appeal had a further explanatory note, that helped my understanding of the issue.
    As "there are a few that were certainly accepted by mistake", hypothetically there could be rejections "by mistake", as we are all photographers and humans.

    So here is the point I wanted to come to: my questions are, whether the screener who review the appeal is the same person/screener who had rejected the photo originally? Is there any case-study being conducted by the staff about rejected appeals?
    I reckon there are millions of photos being reviewed, but a random check on the rejection and appeals process can do good to the system.
    A side note, I work in risk-management and do random & double-checks as a routine.

    Sincerely,
    Ike Harel

  5. #25
    JetPhotos.Net Crew LX-A343's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikeharel View Post
    About rejections and appeals:
    First, I assure everyone here that I was reading carefully all notes mentioned above.
    Through time with JP, I had a number of appeals, not a great number though. I do not remember any appeal accepted.
    Most times, the message / reply on the appeal was merely "appeal rejected", only twice (or three times the most, as I remember) a rejection on the appeal had a further explanatory note, that helped my understanding of the issue.
    As "there are a few that were certainly accepted by mistake", hypothetically there could be rejections "by mistake", as we are all photographers and humans.

    So here is the point I wanted to come to: my questions are, whether the screener who review the appeal is the same person/screener who had rejected the photo originally? Is there any case-study being conducted by the stuff about rejected appeals?
    I reckon there are millions of photos being reviewed, but a random check on the rejection and appeals process can do good to the system.
    A side note, I work in risk-management and do random & double-checks as a routine.

    Sincerely,
    Ike Harel
    Appeals are only handled by seniors, of which we have 6 out of a 30+ screener team. In other words, the appeals are screened by a different screener. We all have tools to browse all our screening decisions and learn from them. Last but not least, we communicate a lot and discuss many photos.

    And usually we comment an appeal, if the appeal has a comment by the photographer. No comment usually means no reply. Insulting or stupid comments, as I just had some minutes ago, usually means rejection and a warning, up to a ban if repeated.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikeharel View Post
    About rejections and appeals:
    First, I assure everyone here that I was reading carefully all notes mentioned above.
    Through time with JP, I had a number of appeals, not a great number though. I do not remember any appeal accepted.
    Most times, the message / reply on the appeal was merely "appeal rejected", only twice (or three times the most, as I remember) a rejection on the appeal had a further explanatory note, that helped my understanding of the issue.
    As "there are a few that were certainly accepted by mistake", hypothetically there could be rejections "by mistake", as we are all photographers and humans.

    So here is the point I wanted to come to: my questions are, whether the screener who review the appeal is the same person/screener who had rejected the photo originally? Is there any case-study being conducted by the staff about rejected appeals?
    I reckon there are millions of photos being reviewed, but a random check on the rejection and appeals process can do good to the system.
    A side note, I work in risk-management and do random & double-checks as a routine.

    Sincerely,
    Ike Harel
    We have made a concerted effort recently to make sure that all appeals receive at least a brief comment - but that does not mean an explanation. Expanding on #7 from Alex's first post, the appeal process is meant to be used when you disagree with a rejection, not when you want an explanation. For example, if you receive a bad info/colour/contrast rejection, please do not appeal with the comments "what's wrong with the info/colour/contrast?". Instead, that question should be asked in the forum. In such cases, you may only receive comments such as "please use the forum" on your appeal. Otherwise, you should always receive a comment, unless as mentioned, you have given no comment on your appeal.

    As for the ratio of successful appeals, I don't think we have an easy way to see that number as a whole, but I know from my personal screening numbers that about 5-10% of the images I reject are appealed, and only about 10% of those appeals are successful. I'd guess the ratio for all appeals is similar, somewhere in the 10% range. This is partly due to the fact that as mentioned, many will appeal immediately without waiting for the rejection email, or checking the rejection reasons carefully.

    As an example of both of these points, I just handled an appeal for bad info, where the uploader had entered 'Unknown' as location for an image taken in the past few days. This was rejected of course (with comments from the screener about why this was not acceptable for location), but the appeal was immediate, with the appeal comments "what's wrong with the info?". If the uploader had simply waited for and the read the rejection email, there would have been no need for the appeal.
    Last edited by dlowwa; 06-03-2018 at 10:44 PM.

  7. #27
    Junior Member antonsarmatin's Avatar
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    I can not say for the last two years I've been here about my appeals. But in this year, I think my appeal ration about 50%.
    As I think, there is a small percent of incorrect rejections, but I always check my mistakes in rejected photos. This is one of improtant steps of correct appeal. If I have some disagreement with reject reasons , I take a pause and revise that shot about three or four times. It leads to accept rejection.
    Otherwise, I'm always trying to explain details of my disagreement and be polite to the screener. I understand this from my first appeal without any advices from forums or smth else.

    As I understood, many peoples just clicking on appeal button and waiting for the luck.

  8. #28
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    Instead of appealing, I usually take the reason for the rejection and try and fix the issue. I have much more success with that than trying to appeal the decision. The screeners comments are usually correct and I can fix the issue most of the time. Here is a rejected photo, I fixed the issues and it was accepted on the second attempt.
    https://www.jetphotos.com/viewqueued_b.php?id=6627006

    Thanks for all you do screeners. Sometimes it must be a thankless job.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by atcvector View Post
    Instead of appealing, I usually take the reason for the rejection and try and fix the issue. I have much more success with that than trying to appeal the decision. The screeners comments are usually correct and I can fix the issue most of the time. Here is a rejected photo, I fixed the issues and it was accepted on the second attempt.
    https://www.jetphotos.com/viewqueued_b.php?id=6627006

    Thanks for all you do screeners. Sometimes it must be a thankless job.
    In Addition to this....

    If you receive a reject,
    #1: Check the rejected photo properly
    #2: When you find the reason, fix it and return the re-edit to the queue
    #3: If you have questions about your reject and/or doubts about your reject, return to the forum ; Screeners will help you!
    #4: If this helps, put your final re-edit to the queue.
    #5: If you absolutely disagree with the reject, use the appeal button with a good/ friendly by yourself measured explanation.

    Best Regards,

    Wilko

  10. #30
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    Thanks Wilko, good advices there !!

  11. #31
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    Politeness is required for appeals, but then, a simple "Bad quality" (with no hint or reason given whatsowever) and, upon appeal, a referral to forum threads, still no reason, and a curt "have a nice day" (that comes across as "go away", to phrase it nicely) is not exactly my idea of politeness from the other side... ID 6868871.

  12. #32
    Administrator Alex - Spot-This !'s Avatar
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    Hi,
    so this was your appeal message :

    But this one makes it to Twtter? https://twitter.com/JetPhotos/status...48863661678592 At least be more specific about that "bad quality", thanks.

    You asked for at "least" an explanation and you got a link to a full explanation in forum. Then as your argument about Twitter is not acceptable and you got redirected here to have a good look at point 5
    (Please feel free to post your rejection link here if you want community to comment about the differences between your pic and that great twitter pic)
    And finally you got a "have a nice day" and you say we're being unpolite ?

    Seriously ??

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfu View Post
    ID 6868871.
    Here is the photo, he already posted the ID so I guess he wants that we all can have a look: https://www.jetphotos.com/viewqueued_b.php?id=6868871

    As I’m not a screener I can only give you my opinion. I looked on the photo on my iPad Pro and on my Macbook Pro 13“. Can not go on my 21“ full PC as I’m on work. But there is indeed a big difference in quality. It starts with lightning and with the sharpness. Then in your picture the registry is like heat haze (or how you can call that) and the plane at all does not look very good and sharp. Also colors looking a bit worse.
    The twitter picture is sharp and has nice colors and lightning. So its a indeed better picture. And things like a view angle, or position for the photo or weather does not go into account. I mean, if the weather is bad spotting is nearly impossible due the limits of the photo.

    So I would be more nicer and better work on my own photos instead of comparing. This will not help you in any way, it will most likely bring the opposite.

    Sorry for the bad english :/ Hope you can understand what I mean

  14. #34
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    It would be really helpful to add an (optional) possibilty for immediate re-upload of the same picture as part of an appeal, for minor issues that can be fixed quickly (dust spots, exposure, etc.). It would be up to screeners to allow a "try-again appeal" for individual pictures. It is extremely demotivating to have to wait two weeks (almost twice as long as the queue time) just to be able to upload the same thing again.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfu View Post
    It would be really helpful to add an (optional) possibilty for immediate re-upload of the same picture as part of an appeal, for minor issues that can be fixed quickly (dust spots, exposure, etc.). It would be up to screeners to allow a "try-again appeal" for individual pictures. It is extremely demotivating to have to wait two weeks (almost twice as long as the queue time) just to be able to upload the same thing again.
    For minor issues like exposure/dust spots/categories, honestly, the onus is on you to check your images either before, or while they're waiting in the queue. There are tools you can use while the images are in the queue to easily check them. Taking 30 seconds out of a ~ 10 day wait to do so doesn't seem like so much of a sacrifice.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlowwa View Post
    For minor issues like exposure/dust spots/categories, honestly, the onus is on you to check your images either before, or while they're waiting in the queue. There are tools you can use while the images are in the queue to easily check them. Taking 30 seconds out of a ~ 10 day wait to do so doesn't seem like so much of a sacrifice.
    If every image that was carefully checked to the uploader's best abilities were accepted, you'd have a point. Sadly, not every rejection is totally objective and undisputed, e.g. in terms of the "correct" sharpness or exposure, and sometimes appeals are successful. Prescreening in the forum also takes someone's time. So a simple option that says "your picture will become acceptable if you increase exposure or sharpness a little bit" and an (optional) upload button with the appeal would be a nice thing. Of course rules are rules, but again, it's extremely demotivating. Not that the top uploaders with 500 slots per day would care much, but this 14-day block when you have 5 slots REEEEALLLY sucks. Literally takes months to get some stuff done. You could remove the upload-appeal option once a contributor gets more slots.

    The "dust spots" in my last rejected upload turned out to be flies, they move between shots....

    And you can't correct anything "while the images are in the queue". You'd have to delete and start queue time again. And yes, I've done that.

  17. #37
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    Thank you for your valuable suggestions, we will put it to the list of users suggestions. Just to make one thing clear though, nobody has 500 slots available. The maximum is 100 for former JP-Elite members, everybody else has 20 slots.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by seahawk View Post
    Thank you for your valuable suggestions, we will put it to the list of users suggestions. Just to make one thing clear though, nobody has 500 slots available. The maximum is 100 for former JP-Elite members, everybody else has 20 slots.
    I should have said 5000 to make the hyperbole even more obvious....

    Activating such an option would be at the screeners' discretion, and in case of unfixable issues (backlit, whatever) it would just not be used...
    But #22 upstairs here is a perfect example where this would have worked without having to wait two weeks after rejection...

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfu View Post
    If every image that was carefully checked to the uploader's best abilities were accepted, you'd have a point. Sadly, not every rejection is totally objective and undisputed, e.g. in terms of the "correct" sharpness or exposure, and sometimes appeals are successful. Prescreening in the forum also takes someone's time. So a simple option that says "your picture will become acceptable if you increase exposure or sharpness a little bit" and an (optional) upload button with the appeal would be a nice thing. Of course rules are rules, but again, it's extremely demotivating. Not that the top uploaders with 500 slots per day would care much, but this 14-day block when you have 5 slots REEEEALLLY sucks. Literally takes months to get some stuff done. You could remove the upload-appeal option once a contributor gets more slots.
    You're basically just asking for there to be more slots after getting rejections, which misses the whole point of blocking them - encouraging uploaders to be more careful (and selective) with their uploads. Anyway, as Stefan said, thank you for your feedback, it will be taken into consideration.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlowwa View Post
    You're basically just asking for there to be more slots after getting rejections, which misses the whole point of blocking them - encouraging uploaders to be more careful (and selective) with their uploads. Anyway, as Stefan said, thank you for your feedback, it will be taken into consideration.
    I thought I made it clear that this would be for small issues, not to fix unfixable problems. It's not "more slots", it's just not losing a slot because of something that can be easily fixed (touch more sharpness, little more exposure, small spot). It would not open a slot for another picture, and if the reupload is rejected, the slot is gone.

    Regardless of that, I still think blocking slots for almost twice as long as the queue is just overdone. Three days, ok. A week, well... But two? That's just punishment for not uploading perfect pictures from the start, and I'm not sure if you even realize how demotivating that is. Yes, I know prescreening exists, but that's not for everyone, as it's public.

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