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Thread: Vintage JU-52 aircraft crashes in Swiss Alps

  1. #61
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    LHB:

    You missed Daveys brief appearance.

    He wondered if any of us had time stamped video of a light twin crash and told us that training on hand flying was inadequate.

    He was most enthusiastic and claimed a vague level of flight time.

    He seemed inexperienced in the ways of discussion fora parlour talk.

    He made occasional overly bold and not quite accurate statements.

    He may have wanted more of an audience than a discussion.

    He seemed to be active while you were away.

    One might ask if LHB is Davey...
    I still think that Davey is Little Bob('s mother)! You are not convincing. Come on!

    That's the problem with online discussions. You never really know who was the mother of Little Bob. But either you accept this moment of a doubt,

    or you contribute something to the comparison between the Ju-52 and the Jetstream 31.

    Or you can say something about assholes in the cockpit.

    Now I am here. Feel free to utter your accurate statement.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The airline code since a few weeks is no longer LH, but the operator stays the same on the DUS - NYC route ...

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  2. #62
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    There are also assholes who sit in the very last row of the theater and who only wait until the actors have left the stage so that they again can be assholes.

    With a smile and a smiley which I really miss here in this forum since a few minutes: °|° .

    No, that does not seem like my middle finger. But you know what I mean, don't you.

    Yours sincerely.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The airline code since a few weeks is no longer LH, but the operator stays the same on the DUS - NYC route ...

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  3. #63
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Most of the time, I leave the table when old men come around the corner who only are able to spread their bad mood
    and nothing else.

    Most of the time..

    PS: Back on topic. Falitz? If an asshole is only good for 18 dead humans, then it might be good that he's a dead asshole.

    One or two days ago, I wondered if always the man with the most Flight hours on type is the Flight Captain. Theoretically I know the answer.

    But if you practically show such a big lack of social competence like Falitz? I'm sure that also a multi-engined propeller without the newest technical bling-bling (GPWS) does not have to end in a CFIT,
    not if the captain trusts his F/O! And I'm also sure that F/O Erickson (1968-1993) today would be a captain who I'd trust. This F/O definitely caught an asshole as his captain, and back then he was young enough to get killed in such a cockpit.

    Was it ATLcrew who once said that I'm probably wrong if I assume that there has not been one Flight Captain on this planet who's ever made a mistake. ATL, that's not a thing which we have to discuss.
    Van Zanten (747). Falitz (Jetstream 31 turbopropeller). Garcez vs Zille (737-200). So, how do we find a good Flight Captain.

    Not by age, if that were true, then Falitz (42) would've been perfect for his F/O (only 25 years old and he died due to his.. ignorant Captain to stay polite).

    Not by the stripes on the shoulder, if that were true then Garcez would've been so much better than Zille, which again is not true.

    To make it short. What is a good Captain in my eyes. As here in the Ju-52 case, the Captain was 62 years (dead) and his F/O was 63 years old (dead).

    If I were a F/O with a valid type license and I could utter a wish about my Captain, we both own the same licenses. And as in 99 or 100 % of all flights, we don't know what the other one is good for at the yoke.
    The captain should challenge his F/O. You have control, show me what you can.

    In case of the Jetstream 31, today we would talk about 18 souls alive, if Falitz had challenged/trusted his F/O!
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The airline code since a few weeks is no longer LH, but the operator stays the same on the DUS - NYC route ...

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  4. #64
    Senior Member brianw999's Avatar
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    I can say this now as I am no longer part of the JP crew.....

    .....WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ? What has all that got to do with the thread subject I.e. a JU 52 crash ?
    Last edited by brianw999; 10-13-2018 at 10:17 AM.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  5. #65
    Senior Member BoeingBobby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LH-B744 View Post
    I still think that Davey is Little Bob('s mother)! You are not convincing. Come on!

    That's the problem with online discussions. You never really know who was the mother of Little Bob. But either you accept this moment of a doubt,

    or you contribute something to the comparison between the Ju-52 and the Jetstream 31.

    Or you can say something about assholes in the cockpit.

    Now I am here. Feel free to utter your accurate statement.
    I knew you would not let me down! Look up the word putz!

  6. #66
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    I can say this now as I am no longer part of the JP crew.....

    .....WHAT THE [expletive deleted] ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ? What has all that got to do with the thread subject I.e. a JU 52 crash ?
    LHB- really. Please stop referencing pilot names...I tried an internet search of Feliz and J-31...no hits...I GUESS it's an interesting case of CRM...but possibly not relevant to this thread?

    Maybe I SHOULD go searching for ADDITIONAL time-stamped videos of a random twin crash where we can see the plane transition from level flight to a dive...It might help understand the cause.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianw999 View Post
    I can say this now as I am no longer part of the JP crew.....

    .....WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ? What has all that got to do with the thread subject I.e. a JU 52 crash ?
    Does Germany have an opiate problem? Honest question.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    Does Germany have an opiate problem? Honest question.
    No, that would be America. In Germany, they stitch you up and give you an ibuprofen, because Germans believe pain is zee best medicine.

  9. #69
    Senior Member brianw999's Avatar
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    Pain....Gods little way of telling you you are still alive !
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !


  10. #70
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Sometimes I know why I really love this platform. The real boys only get nasty when you turn away your eyes from them!

    Doesn't help us with this topic. Still unsolved.

    But after all this off topic entries, #69 included, I've at least tried to find an edge which we have not found (not yet), a thing which we have not yet discussed.

    Did I mention that somebody who is responsible for flight safety in Switzerland, comparable to the US-American FAA (?), grounded all a/c which are owned by Ju Air. One reason, a.o.: The HB-HOT, which is the vehicule/the place where 20 people lost their lives on August 4th 2018, contained spare parts which do not appear in the national aviation spare parts register of Switzerland.

    Another thing which will always strike me, the Ju-52 Flight Captain had not only gathered 943 flight hours on type Ju-52, he did all that with a background of a professional jetpilot, before he died on board an almost 80 year old (!) propeller. His types and airlines? Swiss A330 and Swiss A340.
    That wasn't a boy who crashed into a French rock because he had a bad hair day.

    So, if he saw the chance to cross the Alps over the peak of Piz Segnas (elev 10,200), he had done that, even below the clouds at 11,000 .
    800 feet AGL are not so very much, especially not when AGL stands for 'above a hard and sharp rock'. But if he saw no conditions to do that, he had made a 180° turn and fly back to Locarno. I like to exclude pilot error.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The airline code since a few weeks is no longer LH, but the operator stays the same on the DUS - NYC route ...

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  11. #71
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    One or two weeks ago, I heard someone saying..

    'Well, we'll see how long his statement will survive.' Yes. The case still is unsolved, so, I'm not sure either.

    What should I say. Four weeks later (December 17th + 4 weeks), nobody knows it better.

    But sometimes, I assume that not only pilots do read this forum, but also
    directors, editors, radio news stations (something like that still seems to exist.. after that song, 'Video killed the Radio Star', The Buggles 1979), ..
    Yet in the new year, there was a broadcast on German TV, which - if you ask me - hadn't been there, if this topic had not been opened here on the jetphotos platform.

    It was a broadcast about the death of Steve Fossett in the year 2007. They tried to compare the weather conditions when Fossett died to a/c wrecks which have been found during the fatal Fossett accident investigation. A Douglas DC-3 who was en route from ? to .., damn I should've recorded that broadcast.

    But I remember the weather phenomenon which they showed, by the example of a tiny Cessna propeller. Three souls on board the Cessna: two passengers and the pilot. I mean, crossing the Mt Whitney (elev 14,505) is not something which I'd try without Turbo engines, but at that time, adventurers were in the air, and that definitely includes the Cessna 182 Skylane pilot. 230 hp most of the time is enough to use a car on streets which climb higher than alt 6600 (2000 meters AMSL).

    But 14,505 AMSL is a completely different situation. Let me come back to the wind which caused that Cessna 182 to end exactly in the same situation which we discuss here in this topic: nose dive into a rock. Did they call it a wind wave, which comes across a mountain peak, and which is so strong that on board a 230 hp Cessna nobody on Earth is strong enough to keep that propeller up in the air... (?).

    Help is definitely appreciated, if someone also watched that quite new broadcast, imho year 2018.

    As far as I remember, at least two US-American aviation safety experts were also in front of the camera, included one former NTSB investigator and one man who rather reminded me of an actor, first name.. Patrick or Pat..

    I swear, I don't invent this thing. But in this moment I am not able to damn find again that broadcast.

    PS: There is a reason why I am a fan of the Beech B90 (or B350) turbopropeller. If you ask me, I'd use a Beech B90 (or my avatar) to cross Mt Whitney, instead of a weak Cessna, and instead a Junkers Ju-52 without turbo.

    I'm really careful with names and a/c registrations, but that should be ok, as long as I'm definitely not the first one who publishes it. As in the following case. In my eyes, he's almost a celebrity, and imho he himself was the first one who moved his face in front of a camera, so, let me mention this Flight Captain in combination with that 'unknown broadcast',
    topic: cross the Sierra Nevada in a Douglas DC-3.
    Flight Captain and NBC safety expert J.M. Cox
    Last edited by LH-B744; 01-20-2019 at 02:34 AM. Reason: If you see a name or a link which I should remove, pls let me know!
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The airline code since a few weeks is no longer LH, but the operator stays the same on the DUS - NYC route ...

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  12. #72
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    It is so Sad that the crash happened. We should take much care in the future regarding these crashes.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swapna8 View Post
    We should take much care in the future regarding these crashes.
    This is a quite ambiguous, imprecise and hence useless proposal.

    You mean take much care regarding these crashes as opposed to or compared with other crashes?
    And what does "much care" mean? "Hey, please, be careful and don't crash"? I am sure most pilots take off with a plan of not crashing.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  14. #74
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    This is a quite ambiguous, imprecise and hence useless proposal.

    You mean take much care regarding these crashes as opposed to or compared with other crashes?
    And what does "much care" mean? "Hey, please, be careful and don't crash"? I am sure most pilots take off with a plan of not crashing.
    Oh Gabe. Let him survive. That were his very very VERY first ... less than 6,400 letters which he wrote here at our favorite aviation platform.

    And since January 2019, I just refused to say, since my #71 here, I have found out another one or two details...

    The TV station which I was lookin for in #71 definitely is the German ZDF, or, to be precise ZDFinfo. But what they today have in their 'mediathek' still is not what I'm lookin for since 01-20-2019!! 'Nevada-Dreieck'. Ok. But that indeed does not contain the story which happened on April 24th, 1976.

    A Cessna 182P Skylane took of on that day from KOAK Oakland International Airport. Nobody mentions the name of the 36 year old pilot, who, with only

    46 flight hours on type Cessna 182P Skylane

    dared to invite one young female passenger to fly with him, from KOAK Intl to L06 Furnace Creek Airport...
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The airline code since a few weeks is no longer LH, but the operator stays the same on the DUS - NYC route ...

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  15. #75
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swapna8 View Post
    It is so Sad that the crash happened. We should take much care in the future regarding these crashes.
    Let me help you to survive the first big Gabe attack. He is not mean. Trust me, he's one of my friends. He only sometimes is not again able to feel how he felt on January 18th 2008, which was his first day here on this platform.

    I sometimes try to feel what I felt a whole decade ago. December 12, 2008. I precisely know the reason why I became a jetphotos member. One of the best airlines in Germany, the LTU of DUS, back in those days, was prone to a hostile takeover, by an airline who today doesn't exist either, the AB (July 1978 - 2017). I'm not able to say, back then in 2008 I was able to predict who on Earth will survive this massacre. But there is one airport, which is my home airport, who has definitely survived all the massacres.
    My cute little Lohausen International airport, 1927-2017 (and ready for the 95).

    So, don't take Gabe all too serious, he's 5 years younger than me. Let's survive all the massacres.

    PS: There are days when we see which airport is the Original. Yesterday, Friday the 1st, was such a day. Here at Lohausen, we are always proud to welcome drivers with the "K" license tag. And be it only because the highway between Rhein/Main and Cologne is closed.. Let me say, it is Lohausen (1927) together with Wahnerheide (1938_). We don't really fight, together we are 38 million passengers strong!

    PSII: Do you know two men who celebrate Carnival Monday twice this year? I do...

    PSIII: And, well, here at Lohausen again we are proud that we are the only International Airport who offers an (almost) daily nonstop flight to NYC. The Only Intercontinental Airport, between Flensburg and Frankfurt/Main? I mean, ok, measured by pax per year it is, 1. DUS, 2. Hamburg, 3. CGN.

    But imho, Hamburg has lost a nonstop NYC connection. If you ask me, a German airline should solve this problem.

    Before someone else steps in.
    Last edited by LH-B744; 02-02-2019 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Yesterday, I saw a "K" license tag, who tried the Friday night at the Spiegel...
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The airline code since a few weeks is no longer LH, but the operator stays the same on the DUS - NYC route ...

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  16. #76
    Member ATLcrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LH-B744 View Post
    Let me help you to survive the first big Gabe attack. He is not mean. Trust me, he's one of my friends. He only sometimes is not again able to feel how he felt on January 18th 2008, which was his first day here on this platform.

    I sometimes try to feel what I felt a whole decade ago. December 12, 2008. I precisely know the reason why I became a jetphotos member. One of the best airlines in Germany, the LTU of DUS, back in those days, was prone to a hostile takeover, by an airline who today doesn't exist either, the AB (July 1978 - 2017). I'm not able to say, back then in 2008 I was able to predict who on Earth will survive this massacre. But there is one airport, which is my home airport, who has definitely survived all the massacres.
    My cute little Lohausen International airport, 1927-2017 (and ready for the 95).

    So, don't take Gabe all too serious, he's 5 years younger than me. Let's survive all the massacres.

    PS: There are days when we see which airport is the Original. Yesterday, Friday the 1st, was such a day. Here at Lohausen, we are always proud to welcome drivers with the "K" license tag. And be it only because the highway between Rhein/Main and Cologne is closed.. Let me say, it is Lohausen (1927) together with Wahnerheide (1938_). We don't really fight, together we are 38 million passengers strong!

    PSII: Do you know two men who celebrate Carnival Monday twice this year? I do...

    PSIII: And, well, here at Lohausen again we are proud that we are the only International Airport who offers an (almost) daily nonstop flight to NYC. The Only Intercontinental Airport, between Flensburg and Frankfurt/Main? I mean, ok, measured by pax per year it is, 1. DUS, 2. Hamburg, 3. CGN.

    But imho, Hamburg has lost a nonstop NYC connection. If you ask me, a German airline should solve this problem.

    Before someone else steps in.
    What?

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