Heartless, but factual thoughts about ATC.

[3WE]

Indonesia's air control hero dies to save pilot

An air traffic controller who died in an earthquake in Palu, Indonesia, has been hailed a hero for not leaving his post when the disaster struck in order to ensure a passenger plane took off safely. Rosanna Philpott reports.

ATC does many good things.

But you think about this (with my arm-chair expertise), would any of our pilots here sit there and wait for takeoff clearance if a Tsunami was coming?

1. You have that FAR (or probably whatevercountryAR) that you can deviate as necessary to address emergencies.

2. But isn't there even a really decent chance that there could be all sorts of airliner operations without ATC being involved?

JMO- But I'm thinking that you could load up a LOT of airliners and get them out to the runway and off into the air with no involvement from ATC...

And, nothing like the good ole Die Hard II pilots dutifully running out of gas and following radio beams into the ground...

ATL, Bobby, et al. You think you'd really need ATC help to get out of dodge.

I do think ATC is critical for getting to and from ground control at New Yark- and keeping TRACON happy with the airplane load in the sky...but...

[vaztr]

My 2c - and I'm no expert in ANYTHING

Let's pretend I'm a pilot in an ATR and I 'know' the tsunami is coming, I could wait for the 767 that is using the full length of the runway, or I could enter the runway at taxiway delta and floor the throttles and I think I could beat the 767 off the ground. Then again maybe I won't, what to do???

Again only my 2c and it's not like the story mentions lots of AC needing to take off, and it was in daylight, and it was good visibility etc. etc. etc.

PS. anyone remember Tenerife? Worst 'air' disaster ever due to 'cowboy' pilots

VAZ

[3WE]

My 2c - and I'm no expert in ANYTHING

Let's pretend I'm a pilot in an ATR and I 'know' the tsunami is coming, I could wait for the 767 that is using the full length of the runway, or I could enter the runway at taxiway delta and floor the throttles and I think I could beat the 767 off the ground. Then again maybe I won't, what to do???

Again only my 2c and it's not like the story mentions lots of AC needing to take off, and it was in daylight, and it was good visibility etc. etc. etc.

PS. anyone remember Tenerife? Worst 'air' disaster ever due to 'cowboy' pilots

VAZ

Two comments:

1) Tenerife involved thick fog, and while I did not specify, my mindset was largely visual conditions.

2) The other thing with my comment is that aviation has protocols for airports without control towers AND they have 2-way radios.

A little protocol and use of the 2-way for planes to talk to EACH OTHER (to hell with the tower) and great things can happen...With your ATR example...maybe the ATR could talk to the 767 before sneaking in ahead of him...I guess if the wave is REALLY coming you could have a conflict...but still, I think the tower could bail and the same number of airplanes could find the runway and take off without the tower.

Back to Tenerife, I'd argue that if the tower weren't there, it probably would not have happened. Not saying the tower CAUSED it, just an odd twist of fate. Tenerife traffic, Pan Am is taxiing down the runway. Tenerife traffic, KLM is taxiing into position for takeoff. One of the critical factors was that the tower said "cleared" (but did NOT_say "as filed" nor "for takeoff")...take that away and no crash. (Yes there were other factors.)