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Thread: 707 crashes after landing in wrong, too short runway

  1. #21
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    With over 3000 hours in 707's and 720's, would you like to place a $$$ bet on that one? I also have about 3 dozen friend's that are ex KC, E-3 E-6 and E-8 drivers. And another 2 dozen from the 89th airlift wing.
    3WE, remember to open a corner of the bag and turn it halfway though. This helps prevent unpopped kernels.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    With over 3000 hours in 707's and 720's, would you like to place a $$$ bet on that one? I also have about 3 dozen friend's that are ex KC, E-3 E-6 and E-8 drivers. And another 2 dozen from the 89th airlift wing.
    I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking me to bet on, but I think it’s generally accepted that the 720 was a short/medium haul derivative of the 707, and nothing to do with the 717/KC-135, which was a different airframe (hence Boeing used 707 and 717 as model numbers to distinguish them). No doubt in the overall Boeing enterprise there were all kinds of cross-over development lessons between their airframes, but if you’re telling me, as you did, that ‘a KC-135 is a 720’, I’d have to disagree and ask you to substantiate that.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    Avionics-slapping is kind of frowned upon by the FAA...
    Iran is kind of frowned upon by the USA. It doesn't seem to stop them from cobbling jets together.

    Some of the surviving 707's have had partial third-party glass conversion jobs done. Check this one out. It IS a civilian 707. Probably a magenta line in there somewhere...

    https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/5899516

  4. #24
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    With over 3000 hours in 707's and 720's, would you like to place a $$$ bet on that one? I also have about 3 dozen friend's that are ex KC, E-3 E-6 and E-8 drivers. And another 2 dozen from the 89th airlift wing.
    The KC-135 has the Dash-8's five-abreast cabin width. The 707/720 was widened to a six-abreast width. Point HalcyonDays.

    (BTW: the E3 was not a purpose-built airframe like the KC-135. It IS a 707 airframe.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    With over 3000 hours in 707's and 720's, would you like to place a $$$ bet on that one? I also have about 3 dozen friend's that are ex KC, E-3 E-6 and E-8 drivers. And another 2 dozen from the 89th airlift wing.
    Oh, Come on, Bobby, don't just casually mention 89th MAW, tell "us" who they actually are and what they do. I mean, if you're going to namedrop...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalcyonDays View Post
    I’d have to disagree and ask you to substantiate that.
    I, for my part, would like to ask how it is that in over a decade you only have around 1,300 posts. What happened there?

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    I should have known better!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    Oh, Come on, Bobby, don't just casually mention 89th MAW, tell "us" who they actually are and what they do. I mean, if you're going to namedrop...
    I would tell you but then, well you know the rest.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    I would tell you but then, well you know the rest.
    Oh, no worries, one of their old panel drivers was my systems instructor at my previous airline. In general, for a regional airline, they had surprisingly high-caliber instructors. My sim instructor was a retired AA 767 driver who graduated from a small school called Harvard University.

  10. #30
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    3WE, remember to open a corner of the bag and turn it halfway though. This helps prevent unpopped kernels.
    Indeed.

    Some contextual confusion- at least I think.

    Magenta lines seem like a nice thing to have, as the best of pilots seem to occasionally land at the wrong place, and maybe they could get the pilots an I-pad.

    But you are so black and white that Bobby interprets you demanding the installation of glass in all aeroplanies.

    707...720...KC-135...

    We don't really care...they have four wondrously loud low bypass turbofans AND, the ole steam gauge Bobby style flying is romantic.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    KC-135... they have four wondrously loud low bypass turbofans...
    Oh, I hate to break this to you... (well, maybe some of them still do).

  12. #32
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Oh, I hate to break this to you... (well, maybe some of them still do).
    I don't think so. Well, maybe in some country not US.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1200px-F-15C_Eagle_from_the_67th_Fighter_Squadron_at_Kadena_AB_is_refueled_by_a_KC-135R_Stratota.jpg 
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    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  13. #33
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I don't think so. Well, maybe in some country not US.
    Yes, the country of Utubia still has them:

    https://youtu.be/EI3owgIj6zs
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Talking about this Utubia and other not_US countries, I flew in this Uruguayan PLUNA 707 circa 1992.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_sFnrFMeVc

    In that time the flight from EZE to MAD had a stop in Montevideo where in fact you switched planes to a Spanair 767 rented by PLUNA flight crew included (and the #1 purser too, the rest of the cabin crew where PLUNA). So the leg Montevideo - Madrid didn't require the fuel stop in Rio anymore.

    In the return flight, in the leg from Montevideo to Ezeiza, I had my first go-around in a commercial flight (I was either a PPL or at least a Student Pilot by then so I had already performed several go-arounds myself in the Tomahawk). The plane that landed ahead of us did not clear the runway in time and we started a go-around from almost above the numbers. It was severely visual daylight, the crew advanced thrust slowly and pitched up slowly along several seconds so it didn't feel so violent*. It was actually pleasant.

    These were the only 2 times that I remember having flown in a 707 (I might have done it too at a younger age when I knew nothing about airplanes).

    * unlike another go-around I had in an AA 777 arriving from Dallas also to Ezeiza, in very bad weather with very poor visibility and ceiling, rain, and a lot of turbulence, when we went around from the minimums, thrust was advanced at once, we were squeezed against the seat backs, the nose went way up way quickly, and we were hit by lightning seconds after initiating the go around, the thrust-to-weight ratio is really amazing in a 777 with TOGA and 12 hours less of fuel that at take-off. We diverted to Montevideo, like many other flights, but the rest of the flights eventually returned to Buenos Aires while we had to stay for the night while lightning-related inspection was carried on.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I don't think so. Well, maybe in some country not US.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1200px-F-15C_Eagle_from_the_67th_Fighter_Squadron_at_Kadena_AB_is_refueled_by_a_KC-135R_Stratota.jpg 
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    That is a KC-135 R with the CFM engine conversion. To my knowledge, there are NO civilian models of the 70 fleet with the CFM conversion on them. By the way, easy way to tell the 720 from then 707, only one over wing exit on the 720. And no HF spike antennae on the vertical stabilizer on civilian models.

  16. #36
    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    easy way to tell the 720 from then 707, only one over wing exit on the 720. And no HF spike antennae on the vertical stabilizer on civilian models.
    Noted.

    Interesting information, but sadly, I may never get to use it.

    ATL Crew- Are you familiar with the difference in a normal SD-45 vs and SD-45 T2? Regardless of the radiator air intake placement, there is a special sound from those 20 cyl engines that the newer 16 cyl ones just don't have.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    I, for my part, would like to ask how it is that in over a decade you only have around 1,300 posts. What happened there?
    Indeed. An opportunity for you to surpass my count one day. I do continue to enjoy your contributions, by the way, when I do get on here. Plus ca change......

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    To my knowledge, there are NO civilian models of the 70 fleet with the CFM conversion on them.
    ....although they were put on the DC-8-60 series, to become the -70s, which sometimes gave them a remarkably sprightly field performance - a sight to see. A few still soldier on.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalcyonDays View Post
    ....although they were put on the DC-8-60 series, to become the -70s, which sometimes gave them a remarkably sprightly field performance - a sight to see. A few still soldier on.
    The KC-135 R set several time to climb records. Both empty and full.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post

    ATL Crew- Are you familiar with the difference in a normal SD-45 vs and SD-45 T2? Regardless of the radiator air intake placement, there is a special sound from those 20 cyl engines that the newer 16 cyl ones just don't have.
    Not off hand, but back in my misspent youth, when I worked at a friend's hobby shop, I sold quite a few HO and N scale SD-45s. If memory serves they were mostly Conrail and UP, but that was forever ago now.

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