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Thread: BREAKING: Boeing 767 cargo jet operated by Atlas Air has crashed in Texas

  1. #61
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaztr View Post
    Any more news from the NTSB on this crash?
    None that I heard.

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    I was under the impression the NTSB were going to update 'us' with more info a week after the CVR and FDR were found

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaztr View Post
    I was under the impression the NTSB were going to update 'us' with more info a week after the CVR and FDR were found
    NTSB has committed to releasing the CVR transcript as soon as the public docket is opened. More info here:

    https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ca19ma086.aspx

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    Since no one has mentioned it yet - any thoughts on the rumored "CVR leak" from all the other forums? Is it just someone trying to troll everyone else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Ram View Post
    Since no one has mentioned it yet - any thoughts on the rumored "CVR leak" from all the other forums? Is it just someone trying to troll everyone else?
    And what might the rumors be? I have not seen any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    And what might the rumors be? I have not seen any.
    From someone new in one of the forums (which seems to have been copy-pasted to other forums):

    Got this info from my airlines unofficial forum. Unofficial of course .

    The initial bobble is from turbulence at 6200’. When the FO called for flaps 1, the captain accidentally hit the toga button. Toga didn’t engage until after flaps were set to 1, which then brought engine power to full, and started the initial pitch of 10 degrees nose up. The FO was startled, and shoved the nose forward... The CVR is startling, and baffling. The CA was pulling so hard against the FO that he sheared the pins on the stick and at that point had no control. They were IMC at the time. When they broke out into VMC, the FO said oh schit and started to pull. That was the round out you see. I won’t get into anything more until everything comes out. The records, the CVR, and what happened in the flight deck is truly shocking. They hit a negative 4 G dive initialy on the FOs push. All you hear is stuff hitting the ceiling and at one point a loud thud. They think the thud may have been the JS hitting the ceiling and maybe not wearing the shoulder harness. Like I said, I won’t get into anything more about the background of how it all happened. This is the accident in a nutshell. The facts that will come out are shocking.

  7. #67
    Senior Member BoeingBobby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Ram View Post
    From someone new in one of the forums (which seems to have been copy-pasted to other forums):
    Almost verbatim to what I have been told. Thanks for posting it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    Almost verbatim to what I have been told. Thanks for posting it.
    I thought Your Mightiness was not at liberty to discuss this incident...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATLcrew View Post
    I thought Your Mightiness was not at liberty to discuss this incident...
    Was told that it was okay to release or I would not have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    Was told that it was okay to release or I would not have.
    Much relieved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    Almost verbatim to what I have been told. Thanks for posting it.
    Thanks for confirming. Not sure why the NTSB hasn't released this info. Or why it got leaked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Ram View Post
    Not sure why the NTSB hasn't released this info.
    Hopefully the document referenced below goes some way to answering that question.

    https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...R_Handbook.pdf

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  14. #74
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    14.3. Per 49 USC Section1114(c), a factual report with a transcript is released to the public
    only under the following circumstances (see 49 USC Section 1114(c)–Disclosure,
    availability, and use of information).
    14.3.1. In the event that a public hearing is held, the CVR factual report with the attached
    transcript shall be released into the public docket at the time of the public hearing.
    The general public, including parties to the investigation, may not receive the CVR
    transcript prior to the time of the public hearing.
    14.3.2. In the event that a public hearing is not held, the CVR factual report is released into
    the public docket only when the majority of the factual reports are placed into the
    docket. The general public, including parties to the investigation, may not receive the
    CVR transcript prior to the time the transcript is placed into the public docket.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
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  15. #75
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    The initial bobble is from turbulence at 6200’. When the FO called for flaps 1, the captain accidentally hit the toga button. Toga didn’t engage until after flaps were set to 1, which then brought engine power to full, and started the initial pitch of 10 degrees nose up. The FO was startled, and shoved the nose forward... The CVR is startling, and baffling. The CA was pulling so hard against the FO that he sheared the pins on the stick and at that point had no control. They were IMC at the time. When they broke out into VMC, the FO said oh schit and started to pull. That was the round out you see. I won’t get into anything more until everything comes out. The records, the CVR, and what happened in the flight deck is truly shocking. They hit a negative 4 G dive initialy on the FOs push. All you hear is stuff hitting the ceiling and at one point a loud thud. They think the thud may have been the JS hitting the ceiling and maybe not wearing the shoulder harness. Like I said, I won’t get into anything more about the background of how it all happened. This is the accident in a nutshell. The facts that will come out are shocking.
    Last I checked, those thrust levers are servo-driven. Did no one notice them surge forward or think to bring them back? Did anyone even have a hand on them?
    This looks like another perfectly tragic lesson in the supreme power of startle factor and situational confusion. Not that we needed another lesson.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Last I checked, those thrust levers are servo-driven. Did no one notice them surge forward or think to bring them back? Did anyone even have a hand on them?
    This looks like another perfectly tragic lesson in the supreme power of startle factor and situational confusion. Not that we needed another lesson.
    Last I checked you donÂ’t do extreme nose down inputs and extreme nose down attitudes except maybe if the plane is on fire or some other crazy rare circumstance.

    I think youÂ’re missing the elephant filled forest by looking at two levers.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  17. #77
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    This looks like another perfectly tragic lesson in the supreme power of startle factor and situational confusion. Not that we needed another lesson.
    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Last I checked you donÂ’t do extreme nose down inputs and extreme nose down attitudes except maybe if the plane is on fire or some other crazy rare circumstances.
    Like these ones?

  18. #78
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Did anyone even have a hand on them?
    Most likely not. It was too early in the descent/approach. Normally pilots don't keep their hands in the controls when in AP/AT until they are established in final approach.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
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  19. #79
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Last I checked, those thrust levers are servo-driven. Did no one notice them surge forward or think to bring them back? Did anyone even have a hand on them?
    This looks like another perfectly tragic lesson in the supreme power of startle factor and situational confusion. Not that we needed another lesson.
    Somatogravic illusion?

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  20. #80
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    Thanks for the regulation stuff on CVR disclosure, but I wasn't exactly asking why the actual transcript hasn't been released. I was just wondering why the NTSB didn't mention anything in its update about what started the chain of events.

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