Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33

Thread: BA flight to Düsseldorf diverts to Edinburgh. Seriously.

  1. #21
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,997

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    Word choice means a lot. Doctors have cut off the wrong leg and killed people with the wrong meds.

    Us outsiders can envision a couple of folks a bit fried from many days and many legs...they sit in the cockpit, do otherwise aswesome CRM, and take the airplane where the flight plan tells them to.

    Is there some rock solid procedure to guarantee that this will never ever ever ever ever ever ever happen?...just like the doc using a red sharpie pen to write “NOT_THIS ONE” on your good leg?
    speaking of which...when i had a second surgery on my busted ankle in 2012, the made me write "this leg" on my already busted up leg that had been operated on only 6 weeks earlier. effin retarded.

    go ahead evan, blame it on my profession....

  2. #22
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    go ahead evan, blame it on my profession....
    Why tell you what you already know. The problem isn't really your profession, per se. It is what you, as a lawyer, choose to do with it. The problem lies in the opportunistic abuse of lawsuits and the abusive rewards paid out by them. I met with a lawyer yesterday to defend my basic rights against a leviathan institution. Thank gawd for those lawyers.

  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    864

    Default

    Youtube's chief pilot's take on the matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4WxF2gYWWw
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

  4. #24
    Senior Member TeeVee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    MIA
    Posts
    1,997

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Why tell you what you already know. The problem isn't really your profession, per se. It is what you, as a lawyer, choose to do with it. The problem lies in the opportunistic abuse of lawsuits and the abusive rewards paid out by them. I met with a lawyer yesterday to defend my basic rights against a leviathan institution. Thank gawd for those lawyers.
    your basic rights? do tell more. are you actually paying him out of your own pocket with no chance of recovery from the big evil leviathan? if not, she/he's just in it for the big leviathan's $$$$. it bothers you that we get paid to do what we do, yet, as i predicted loooooooooong ago, the day you needed one of us dirtbags, you'd be thankful for our existence.

  5. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    251

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeVee View Post
    your basic rights? do tell more. are you actually paying him out of your own pocket with no chance of recovery from the big evil leviathan? if not, she/he's just in it for the big leviathan's $$$$. it bothers you that we get paid to do what we do, yet, as i predicted loooooooooong ago, the day you needed one of us dirtbags, you'd be thankful for our existence.
    Just like any profession, the majority are part of the mediocrity which means for straightforward stuff, you'll get what you need for money paid. There are a small percentage of crooks and idiots, and there are a small percentage that are worth every cent. I have had the privilege of working with some really good lawyers both paid for out of pocket, or on the payroll at my company. I love working with them. The mediocrity, fine if it's a rote simple thing.

  6. #26
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    21

    Default

    My dad flew our Cessna 172 into the wrong airport once when I was a kid. We were flying at night trying for Southern Pines, NC and there was another airport (not sure which one) that had a beacon that he mistook for the destination. Classic confirmation bias. Sadly this wouldn't be the worst mistake he made as a pilot, not by a long shot.

    One other thing that happened to me was a red-eye from SFO back to FLL. There was a thunderstorm hovering over the airport so the pilot told us we'd circle for a while until it cleared. After maybe 20 minutes, without coming on the intercom and saying anything, we landed. Something didn't feel right and when I looked out the window it was a bizarre site. Turns out he'd landed in Sarasota because the fuel was running low. It was a very weird feeling - the pilot came on and made a joke about how you may have noticed we're not in Fort Lauderdale!

  7. #27
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    1 hr away from EDDL
    Posts
    1,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    How does this happen? I thought flight plans were downlinked directly to the FMS these days.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47691478
    Well. BA #3271 on that Monday was operated with a WDL Aviation BAe 146-200, if flightradar24 is right. I could ask somebody who like me is based on EDDL. But I don't know if he's already back online here at jetphotos, after a serious laughter. WH is an airline based on the EDDK airport.

    Thus, I was able to see headlines from the yellow press, based in Cologne.. 'Das ist nicht mehr zum Lachen.' In English: 'Nobody should laugh about that.'
    I like to contradict.

    1. Nobody was hurt. WH knows how to calculate fuel, a rather extraordinary alternate airport like Edinburgh included (cp Chapecoense...) .

    2. Did somebody here already mention that the Flight Captain of that WH Jumbolino asked his passengers one indeed funny question.
    'Ahm. Nobody for Edinburgh? Who boarded this a/c for Düsseldorf?' - with an overwhelming answer, afaik all passengers said
    'yes. Scotland is beautiful but we payed for DUS.'

    Lol.

    Back to Evan's question. How does this happen. WDL filed the wrong flight plan. If you'd ask me, the Flight Captain is responsible for doing so, but that might be different from airline to airline. And also with the background that I don't get paid by LH for what I'm writing here, so rather take it as an assumption based on.. let's say aviation history, how things were done 10 or 20 years ago. And somebody sat down and told the story to a rather young aviation enthusiast...

    Thus, you 'are able' , or better in history you were able to file a wrong flight plan, if not the London City air traffic controller said, wait a moment,
    BA #3271 dep LCY 0715 - arr DUS 0940 .
    What do you look for in Edinburgh.. ?
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  8. #28
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    1 hr away from EDDL
    Posts
    1,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
    My dad flew our Cessna 172 into the wrong airport once when I was a kid. We were flying at night trying for Southern Pines, NC and there was another airport (not sure which one) that had a beacon that he mistook for the destination. Classic confirmation bias. Sadly this wouldn't be the worst mistake he made as a pilot, not by a long shot.

    One other thing that happened to me was a red-eye from SFO back to FLL. There was a thunderstorm hovering over the airport so the pilot told us we'd circle for a while until it cleared. After maybe 20 minutes, without coming on the intercom and saying anything, we landed. Something didn't feel right and when I looked out the window it was a bizarre site. Turns out he'd landed in Sarasota because the fuel was running low. It was a very weird feeling - the pilot came on and made a joke about how you may have noticed we're not in Fort Lauderdale!
    Yes. I don't know how old you are, but God save us, if even a Junior discovers what went wrong here... And nobody should say that's not funny,
    always assumed that nobody was hurt, like during that BA #3271 flight last Monday lol.

    he'd landed in Sarasota because the fuel was running low.
    That's a different story. I just had to look up the Cessna 172 maximum range. In my eyes, i.e. if I were the Leftseat in a Cessna 172,
    definitely not more than 5 flight hours before you land again because you need fuel. 600 nautical miles nonstop, not more.

    Some people must've shown a quite scared expression in their face when I made my comments about the Chapecoense flight, back then November 28th 2016.

    A/c type back then was exactly the same as last Monday. Somebody likes to confirm that, a BAe 146-200, or also known as Avro RJ85. That bird provides a
    maximum range (!) of definitely not more than ? nautical miles, assumed that within the last two feet you reach a gas station.
    Not more than 1400 nmi if you ask me. There are sentences which I'm not able to translate.

    'Die Flugstrecke war mit 2994 km länger als die vom Hersteller mit 2965 km angegebene treibstoffbedingte maximale Reichweite des Maschinentyps.'
    (German wiki concerning November 28th 2016).

    What the hell. I still know what I wrote during the Chapecoense discussion here on jetphotos.
    1. The airline is younger than me. Be aware.
    2. And I like to say sorry for that words, not everybody knows how much fuel he needs for a certain route. Back then I said, why didn't you call a 747.

    If I had the choice, call a 747 (expensive, I know) or die in an Avro RJ 85 which definitely by the manufacturer was not invented for routes longer than 2600 km (!!),
    [source: German wiki 'BAe 146']
    then I'd decide for the type 747, which indeed was invented for routes longer than 1,403 nautical miles (which are 2600 km).

    That indeed seems easy. But the only thing which I like to mention is, fuel starvation is not fun. There are a/c types which are more affordable than type 747 and who also fulfil
    'invented for routes longer than 1400 nmi'. Beech King Air 350, B737, B757, B767, A318, A319, A320, A321, et cetera et cetera.

    In case of a doubt you better take the bigger aircraft, compared to a Cessna 172. Please promise me that.

    I like 'our' Juniors here at jetphotos too much to see another Chapecoense happening!
    Last edited by LH-B744; 03-30-2019 at 12:17 AM. Reason: Hm, de wiki BAe146 says max 1400 nmi (en: 1900). In doubt take the smaller number!
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  9. #29
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    1 hr away from EDDL
    Posts
    1,270

    Default

    Sorry again, but Gabriel knows that problem, if you are in the topic, lengthy entries might occur..

    Again, I tried to confirm that it was a BAe 146-200 here in this topic.

    Well. Flightradar24 says, yes indeed. And they are able to precisely name the aircraft by registration. D-AMGL. Which exactly is this little bird:
    https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9170185

    So, imho we can trust Flightradar24. They are able to name the a/c, or at least 1 a/c which today is part of the WDL Aviation fleet. Although...

    EDDL control tower does not quite confirm that. At least for next Monday (April 2019), the schedule says 'Embraer'. Or how do you read
    'Embraer, ERJ 170-100 STD; AR; LR; SU; SE'
    ?

    I know that ARJ sometimes is the code for an Avro RJ85. So the EDDL schedule only says, what all experienced aviation enthusiasts know?
    'a/c type is subject to change 1 second before boarding.'

    Let's say it was a BAe 146-200, until EDDL control tower shows us what really took off under their eyes last Monday.

    PS: Again. Today we somehow are in danger to get used to a/c types like A320, A321, B737, B757 or B763ER.

    But although neither the manufacturer nor the type ARJ (B142) has one active aircraft production (!), both are history since 2001, they are still in the air.
    -
    These extremely short haul jets type ARJ, which only look like the long haul Original..
    ARJ85 Jumbolino - max range 1400 nmi
    A320 max range - more than 3000 nautical miles
    B744 Jumbo (the older brother) max range - ... enough.

    PS: Edinburgh ICAO code is EGPH. You can't really confuse that with my home airport EDDL. Only if someone tried EDI for Lohausen.
    EDI is the IATA code for Edinburgh.
    That completely has nothin to do with DUS.
    But I was able to find the distance between EGPH and EDDL. With only a rough guess, 455 nautical miles nonstop if you fly one straight line without waypoints.
    That's a 'really short' short haul, good for the ARJ85.

    There are jetpilots who even regard the Fiumicino route as rather short, which is true. An official short haul.

    But again that ARJ? As far as I remember, concerning Chapecoense I said, you better land an ARJ after not more than 700 nmi, which is 50% of the maximum range, to refuel.
    And that's what the WDL aviation crew did. So nobody was hurt. Good.
    Last edited by LH-B744; 03-30-2019 at 01:39 AM. Reason: Really short short haul, 0 - 499 nautical miles.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  10. #30
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LH-B744 View Post
    Yes. I don't know how old you are, but God save us, if even a Junior discovers what went wrong here... And nobody should say that's not funny,
    always assumed that nobody was hurt, like during that BA #3271 flight last Monday lol.



    That's a different story. I just had to look up the Cessna 172 maximum range. In my eyes, i.e. if I were the Leftseat in a Cessna 172,
    definitely not more than 5 flight hours before you land again because you need fuel. 600 nautical miles nonstop, not more.

    Some people must've shown a quite scared expression in their face when I made my comments about the Chapecoense flight, back then November 28th 2016.

    A/c type back then was exactly the same as last Monday. Somebody likes to confirm that, a BAe 146-200, or also known as Avro RJ85. That bird provides a
    maximum range (!) of definitely not more than ? nautical miles, assumed that within the last two feet you reach a gas station.
    Not more than 1400 nmi if you ask me. There are sentences which I'm not able to translate.

    'Die Flugstrecke war mit 2994 km länger als die vom Hersteller mit 2965 km angegebene treibstoffbedingte maximale Reichweite des Maschinentyps.'
    (German wiki concerning November 28th 2016).

    What the hell. I still know what I wrote during the Chapecoense discussion here on jetphotos.
    1. The airline is younger than me. Be aware.
    2. And I like to say sorry for that words, not everybody knows how much fuel he needs for a certain route. Back then I said, why didn't you call a 747.

    If I had the choice, call a 747 (expensive, I know) or die in an Avro RJ 85 which definitely by the manufacturer was not invented for routes longer than 2600 km (!!),
    [source: German wiki 'BAe 146']
    then I'd decide for the type 747, which indeed was invented for routes longer than 1,403 nautical miles (which are 2600 km).

    That indeed seems easy. But the only thing which I like to mention is, fuel starvation is not fun. There are a/c types which are more affordable than type 747 and who also fulfil
    'invented for routes longer than 1400 nmi'. Beech King Air 350, B737, B757, B767, A318, A319, A320, A321, et cetera et cetera.

    In case of a doubt you better take the bigger aircraft, compared to a Cessna 172. Please promise me that.

    I like 'our' Juniors here at jetphotos too much to see another Chapecoense happening!
    As far as the Cessna, low fuel, and landing at Sarasota, those were 2 separate incidents. Landing at the wrong airport was all on my dad and the Cessna. The Sarasota landing was a commercial JetBlue flight which, as far as I can tell, was handled fine. It was just weird and disorienting (likely compounded by early morning red eye).

  11. #31
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    1 hr away from EDDL
    Posts
    1,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
    As far as the Cessna, low fuel, and landing at Sarasota, those were 2 separate incidents. Landing at the wrong airport was all on my dad and the Cessna. The Sarasota landing was a commercial JetBlue flight which, as far as I can tell, was handled fine. It was just weird and disorienting (likely compounded by early morning red eye).
    Hey. Welcome back to this cute little aviation platform. I hope that you're not embarrassed because I said 'Junior'. I just wonder what I wrote in my 21st forum entry here. My entry #21? I don't know, that must've been in the 18th century..

    Evan started this topic, and I tried to find the source which he mentioned a few months ago. And well, this is the BBC, they don't simply delete something. The link is still active.

    They published a map which contains all three airports,
    1. London City airport, the scheduled departure.
    2. Edinburgh airport, the airport which nobody expected.
    3. And finally DUS. The scheduled arr.

    I still wonder what happened in that BAe 146 cockpit. And again the codes which I had used for this flight:
    dep EGLC (London City)
    arr EDDL (Düsseldorf International).

    That's it. Now I could describe what happens if you use a 747 fmc. Somewhen during the preflight procedure, the fmc tells you, aha, I have found the departure, i.e.
    that's the airport where you and your aircraft is at, now. You can add more detail, e.g. gate number, and if it is a major airport, the fmc shows you the global position for this gate,
    N51°30'19 E0°3'19 .
    What would I do then is, compare this position with the on board gps. If you see major deviations, then either you've mistyped the four letter code for the departure,
    or that airport has changed its global position.

    To make it short. I still don't see a chance to not only feed the fmc which alot of crap like Edinburgh instead of Düsseldorf, but after all you say 'activate', and then you say 'execute'. So, you feed the fmc with crap and you confirm it twice before you take off? Impossible, in my eyes, to stay polite.

    I should mention the EDDL data, so please, DO NOT CONFUSE THIS with Edinburgh.
    Airport name: Düsseldorf International airport, also called Lohausen.
    ICAO-Code: EDDL
    IATA-Code: DUS
    Global Position: N51°16'51 E006°45'26 .

    As far as I can remember, nobody has really confused that with Edinburgh, at least not before a full BBC report. Edinburgh:
    Global Position: N55°57'0 et cetera..

    You can't confuse that, if you'd ask me. But nobody was injured. So let's say the two pilots had a bad hair day.

    PS: There is only 1 option how something stupid like that could have happened. If we talk about Randazzo's B744 simulator, then there is something in that B744 fmc which
    1. gives you the data for the return flight, i.e. when you complete the EGLC - EDDL route, the fmc assumes that you like to fly back to EGLC, and so EGLC appears as the new dep. But nothing happens before you confirm it!
    2. What if the BAe 146 on that day was on a flight like EGLC (London City) - EGPH (Edinburgh) - EGLC (London City), before EDDL was on the schedule. Then the fmc assumed that you again like to fly to EGPH. And boom, the shit happens.

    But nothing happens before you confirm it twice. So again, no excuse. Bad hair day.
    Last edited by LH-B744; 07-11-2019 at 10:38 PM. Reason: My entry #21?
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

  12. #32
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Spokane,Washington,USA [KGEG,KSFF,KSKA]
    Posts
    204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LH-B744 View Post
    Hey. Welcome back to this cute little aviation platform. I hope that you're not embarrassed because I said 'Junior'. I just wonder what I wrote in my 21st forum entry here. My entry #21? I don't know, that must've been in the 18th century..


    And the rest of us wonder what you wrote in your 1st,2nd,3rd,4th,5th,69th,420th,666th,and to infinite and beyond post in every century from here to eternity.

  13. #33
    Senior Member LH-B744's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    1 hr away from EDDL
    Posts
    1,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KGEG View Post
    And the rest of us wonder what you wrote in your 1st,2nd,3rd,4th,5th,69th,420th,666th,and to infinite and beyond post in every century from here to eternity.
    Hm. Do you still know what rubbish you wrote here in your entry #1, in June 2005?!

    I mean, normally I show some respect, either because you are as old as me, or older. Or because, you use this forum like I do, to discuss aviation topics with people who are as crazy as me.

    More than 14 years on this platform, in my eyes this is another form of craze-ness. How long do you like to stay here, until you complete 15 years and longer? Man, I invite you to do so. You are young enough.

    I just don't want to calculate how old you were when you wrote your first entry here. 14? And then you travelled to Antartica and vanished for 10 years? I mean, I am not the one who writes 3000 forum entries per months. I also live off-line. But you. 204 entries in 14 years. That makes... almost nothing in 1 month.

    So.. 1. Happy Birthday, I know I am a little late, but not too late for somebody who only appears here once a year. 29 is a good age. I've never been so young when I joined this platform! So, Imagine, how many years here on the platform you own when you are as old as me. 27 years?! I can't expect to see me here on this platform when I'm 50.

    2. The state of Washington, so US West Coast. I only know 1 famous airport in the state of Washington. KSEA. So, if you like LH-B744s ... Or don't you?

    3. Back on topic? Not necessarily, since your entry #32, or do we have to?

    PS: Back on topic. I really try. SeaTac is an airport which has never been confused with KGEG. That's what I assume. Mt Rainier. You know when to step on the brake. LH #490. A/c type? LH-B744.
    I have never confused an airport. Not since I use Randazzo's B744 simulator. You have 744 possibilities to not confuse airports. An on board compass. Edinburgh is hdg 350, only a rough guess. DUS is hdg 100, if you start at London City.

    You don't confuse that if you don't sleep in the cockpit.
    Last edited by LH-B744; 07-12-2019 at 03:30 AM. Reason: A compass is beginner level, you don't confuse that if you don't sleep.
    LH also has a intercontinental history, the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955.
    A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
    The operator on the DUS - NYC route, on the DUS - BKK route, and on the shiny new DUS - LAS nonstop route? EW, one of the dearest LH daughters .

    Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years. A whole decade here on this platform.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •