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Thread: BE-350 crashes immediately after takeoff from Addison, TX. No survivors.

  1. #21
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    Not sure if this was posted or if anyone saw. It looks like the plane had a left yaw before rolling and inverting. I would gather #1 engine failure with a lack of timely and appropriate response.

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CthYV_1563305341

  2. #22
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Cryptic resolution as usual but it certainly looks like the plane was seriously yawing but level until it suddenly rolled over. Did they let it fall below vmca and/or stall?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Cryptic resolution as usual but it certainly looks like the plane was seriously yawing but level until it suddenly rolled over. Did they let it fall below vmca and/or stall?
    Or.... Vmc assumes that you are using full rudder, that the inop engine is feathered, and that you are using the correct bank angle needed to keep zero sideslip: about 5 degrees into the good engine.

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Or.... Vmc assumes that you are using full rudder, that the inop engine is feathered, and that you are using the correct bank angle needed to keep zero sideslip: about 5 degrees into the good engine.
    But the apparent yaw in the video suggests the engine had already failed when they were flying level, for some time, until the plane suddenly rolls over. My guess is that they allowed the airspeed to decay to a critical point. What do you see happening there?

  5. #25
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    Is it me or does it look like the plane has yawed extremely to the left? Maybe it's just the angle to the video camera but it looks like the plane is flying nearly sideways just before the left wing drops.

    I wonder if the pilot could have pushed the rudder in the wrong direction in response to an engine failure?
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    But the apparent yaw in the video suggests the engine had already failed when they were flying level, for some time, until the plane suddenly rolls over. My guess is that they allowed the airspeed to decay to a critical point. What do you see happening there?
    I agree, but that critical point is Vmc only if you manage the rest of the things correctly. If not the critical slow speed where control will be lost will be more (and can be quite more) than Vmc.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Gabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elaw View Post
    Is it me or does it look like the plane has yawed extremely to the left? Maybe it's just the angle to the video camera but it looks like the plane is flying nearly sideways just before the left wing drops.

    I wonder if the pilot could have pushed the rudder in the wrong direction in response to an engine failure?
    It certainly looks like it is in an extreme sideslip angle to the left, unless there is a huge lot of crosswind from the left.

    Rudder in the opposite direction? I don't know, but I tend to think that that's unlikely, especially in Vmc. A pilot would naturally and instinctively respond with right rudder to what it is a visible left yawing regardless of engine(s) condition. But maybe no rudder if the pilot was distracted by the engine failure and not looking outside. Then (if the pilot was not looking outside) wrong rudder becomes more a possibility after all.

    And then I thought that pilots would naturally respond to a stall warning by reducing the AoA and then we had Colgan and Air France that pushed up all the time.

    So... who knows.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I agree, but that critical point is Vmc only if you manage the rest of the things correctly. If not the critical slow speed where control will be lost will be more (and can be quite more) than Vmc.
    I'm not suggesting that anything was handled correctly here, I certainly don't see any corrective roll to the good engine, the track seems to be diverging from the runway heading, the gear remains extended and the nose appears to remain in a climb attitude (I assume the props auto-feather if power is lost). But there is clearly a point at which the death spiral begins and I'm wondering if that is initiated by stall or loss of rudder authority. Loss of power + increased aerodynamic drag while in an increasing roll at a constant climb-out pitch. Would the plane in this situation stall above vmca or would the loss of rudder authority below vmca result in increased left roll and an accelerated stall?

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