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Thread: Air France Off the Hook on AF447

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Default Air France Off the Hook on AF447

    The French magistrates have dropped charges against Air France and Airbus. It was just one of those existential things that happen in life when you place inadequately trained pilots in a commercial transport cockpit with no procedure for a known failure scenario. C'est la vie.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49598838

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    The French magistrates have dropped charges against Air France and Airbus. It was just one of those existential things that happen in life when for no known reason a highly-trained pilot executes a how to stall procedure when continuing to fly fat dumb and happy was better. Something that a even a dumbass, poorly-read inactive private pilot like 3BS knows better. C'est la vie.
    Fixed.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    From that statement:

    The disaster highlighted an important public concern as to whether pilots are too dependent on technology and whether they retain the knowledge required to fly complex commercial aircraft. This concern continues to exist today.
    I believe the answer to this concern is:

    Complex commercial aircraft are dependent on technology and therefore pilots must be trained to retain the knowledge required to fly complex commercial aircraft.
    The concern I have is: how will we achieve this? Will it be voluntary or will it be required? If it is required, how will we enforce it? If a company violates the requirement, will the punishment fit the crime?

    One lesson we should all have learned by now is that, when the punishment falls short of the crime, industry does not change its ways.

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    Senior Member 3WE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    The concern I have is: how will [italics]we[/italics] achieve this?
    1. Fixed.

    2. I suggest that during a pilots first 40 to 60 hours of flight instruction, part the training covers that excessive pull ups can cause stalls and that a great fundamental rule is if things go bad (especially technological things) continue to fly the plane. Perhaps these items can be briefly reviewed when the pilot gets new ratings and recurrent trainings, and maybe an occasional competency check. From occasionally listening to ATL, it's possible that this is already done in some places and some airlines have no incidents of inexplicable, relentless pull ups.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    That makes a lot of sense. But... I'm gonna say it's 99.99% likely that during their first 40 to 60 hours of flight instruction, the pilots *were* trained that excessive pull ups can cause stalls. And I bet if you could communicate with the dead and ask them, they'd insist they *were* flying the plane.

    The problem is what constitutes "flying the plane". It seems likely here that what happened is they realized that some of the information presented by their instruments was inaccurate, and for whatever reason jumped to the conclusion it was *all* inaccurate. They then proceeded to fly the plane as one would with no instruments, relying on visual cues and their own senses. The problem being of course that the few visual cues they may have had were misleading, and their senses were providing information that was even less accurate than (some of) the instruments.

    I think there are a lot of people here (myself included) that think that "fly the plane" should have meant P+P=P, but these guys apparently felt differently. So IMHO the area of question is not "flying the plane" but the decision-making process (and the stress that may have affected same) that resulted in them using a faulty technique to fly the plane.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3WE View Post
    From occasionally listening to ATL, it's possible that this is already done in some places and some airlines have no incidents of inexplicable, relentless pull ups.
    So what are you saying? This is not done in France? This is not done at the nation's flag carrier airline?

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