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MD-80 skidded off runway at LGA

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  • #16
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    Wrong!

    It's off the right side of Runway 31.

    Can you have it any more backwards?

    According to DL's website it landed on 13 so technically it's off the left side. http://news.delta.com/2015-03-05-Del...On-Flight-1086 (But yeah, I get that it's the same actual location)
    Yet another AD.com convert!

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    • #17
      Unfortunately, I have a feeling the reports will contain the phrases "rudder blanking", "contaminated runway", "crosswind", and "weathervaning"
      Parlour Talker Extraordinaire

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      • #18
        Don't worry Matt. 3WE is in one of his "is the glass half full or half empty" pedantic moods as witnessed by his use of a devil smilie.

        Good here 'innit ?
        If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mawheatley View Post
          According to DL's website it landed on 13 so technically it's off the left side. http://news.delta.com/2015-03-05-Del...On-Flight-1086 (But yeah, I get that it's the same actual location)
          Hmmm....

          In fact, I saw some talking head media weathermen going on and on about a 15 kt True North wind and the crosswind implications, blah blah blah...and indicated that the plane would have landed to the NW.

          Nevertheless, the reliability of your link vs. talking heads on the TV...and if the wind was more Northeasterly...the smart bet might be on your link and runway 13 as opposed to my unsubstantiated parlour gossip regarding 31.

          Edit: And, after listening to the ATC recording...Winds were ~020 degrees and planes were operating on 13 and 4...


          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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          • #20
            Yeah - no worries. My wife actually flies for Delta, so this one hits a little close to home, but the link I posted was from DL's publicly available website.
            Yet another AD.com convert!

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            • #21
              I used to work on that aircraft in the early 90's. Glad noone was seriously hurt.

              Reminds me of the old saying, a good landing is one you can walk away from; a great landing is one where you can use the aircraft again.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Vnav View Post
                Unfortunately, I have a feeling the reports will contain the phrases "rudder blanking", "contaminated runway", "crosswind", and "weathervaning"
                And ..
                "Ground spoilers?"
                "Yeah, heard the lever click..."

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                • #23
                  Tower Tapes:



                  It's a little interesting how long it seems to take them to figure out they have a plane off the runway.

                  I also like the Jet Blue guy saying, I'm all deiced, and ready to go any time (at about 15 minutes in). And, a little interesting for the tower to say, "Ok, stand by"
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                  • #24
                    Godda love dat Brooklyn accent.
                    Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Evan View Post
                      And ..
                      "Ground spoilers?"
                      "Yeah, heard the lever click..."
                      I bet no...

                      ...because I trust in their training, procedural knowledge and CRM to properly execute and confirm the spoiler settings and function.

                      (The airmanship part will come in if they were jockeying with the reversers in a manner inconsistent with QRH checklists because of fundamental knowledge that generating a big cloud of crazy turbulent, swirling air next to a critical control surface that depends on a smooth flow of air might be of some significance when rolling out on an icy runway where braking will be reduced...steering, wheel braking, engine braking...8 possible things to keep straight...which memory checklist applies...)
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                      • #26
                        or, it just may be that NO ONE IS AT FAULT except God, and perhaps the port authority of NY & NJ for not having the runway absolutely, perfectly clean in middle of a winter storm.

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                        • #27
                          ...I would lean more towards the Port Authority/runway conditions than to a magical sky faerie being to blame lol

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Vnav View Post
                            "rudder blanking"
                            Care to explain this term?

                            Ok, let me guess...

                            Something nasty that happens when you put reversers on those engines that are so close to the tail?

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              Care to explain this term?

                              Ok, let me guess...

                              Something nasty that happens when you put reversers on those engines that are so close to the tail?
                              Must be that old US English slang vs. Gabriel ISO-9001-236A Espanol language thing again.

                              I actually went to a dictionary on www.internet.com and indeed, the definition which I knew, seemed to be lacking.

                              Blank = Empty (like a blank on a form)...i.e. nothingness...and make a verb out of it..."blank out" or "cover over what used to be there" "negate", or the final (but logical extrapolation) cover the the good airflow that used to be there with a weak, non-existent, non-effective, turbulent, backwards, lacking airflow.

                              The reverse thrust (i.e. air blowing backwards) blanks out the normal airflow over the tail reducing it's effectiveness.

                              Put the engines in the right place and keep the nose off the ground and you can even "blank out" the horizontal stabilizer with reverse thrust and plant the nose wheel quite firmly (think Turboprop singles!!!!)

                              A friend I know who is an ag pilot had just departed with a full load of herbicide, the gearbox failed, the prop went into a reverse pitch and he said that the dive was very scary as he was pulling up relentlessly, but not stalling.

                              His words in describing the story was "the prop went into reverse and blanked out the elevators".

                              Fortunately, there wasn't a lot of stored rotational energy to generate the reverse thrust for more than a couple of seconds, he regained some elevator authority and his landing was 'good' by all of those classic definitions...The dead spot from the spilled herbicide was visible on Google Earth images for a couple of years.

                              Rudder blanking (not sure exactly how it was worded) was a factor in the AA1491 crash at Little Rock...As they slid sideways, they let off the reverse thrust hoping to improve rudder authority...but sadly, could have used the additional braking to make the off-road adventure more gentle.
                              (Yes, failing to arm the spoilers was perhaps a bigger contributor as it would have added braking and steering authority to the landing gear).

                              (Does the mind of a Spanish speaking person focus very strongly on the color white for "blank/blanco" ? To English speaking folks, "Blank" isn't really a color, but something that's not completed...I left the answer blank on my test.)
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by obmot View Post
                                ...I would lean more towards the Port Authority/runway conditions than to a magical sky faerie being to blame lol
                                But all the other planes landing in greater New Yark that day stayed well within the runway boundaries...didn't even drop a wheel off the side.
                                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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