Any chance of Song heading to St. Louis??

[Southwest737]

I am curious if Song will attempt to service St. Louis-Lambert Airport? I believ its a great opportunity(even though I don't like it...) for them to go against Southwest Airlines at STL. UNless, they do not want of with against American, with its strong presence at STL. Or are they just targeting at where Jetblue flies?? Or maybe they could try to fly to Mid-America in Bellville. I would love that!!! So what about you folks.. any chance of St. Louis hearing some SONG on the way??

Alex.

[MCIFLYR]

Definitely would be neat to have Song here in Missouri, but i honestly think you'll see them in MCI before STL. AA already operates several 757s and MD80s from STL to all three south florida airports as well as TPA, MCO, etc., not to even mention flights the WN has. If they could pull it off, more power to them, but STL is a pretty tough market due to the huge amount of traffic that's already there. I would see Song at Mid-America if it turns out to be a popular alternative to STL, and what the hell, if not, you can come over to MCI and spot those beautiful birds w/ me LOL.

[DeltaCappy]

Song is taking over DL Express, they fly from the Northeast to the major Florida cities, and around the Gulf. As I think it would be cool to see puke wavy green planes in STL, I think they're going to stick to Florida. But hey. Anything looks nice on a 757

[nyc_spotter]

I give Song 6 months... its the most retarded idea I've ever heard.

As they say, immitation is the greatest form of flattery.

[DeltaCappy]

[Foxtrop]

Most retarded idea??

I am at a loss as to why Song is the most retarded idea. Can you explain why so? Sure, it's not the greatest idea on the planet, but considering the dire need for dough the majors currently have, it's like giving it a decent shot. Yes, Song is mainly replacing Delta Express, but Song is not based on what DL Express was. It's a completely new idea, with completely new goals. Given that all other attempts at low-cost divisions by the majors have failed the odds are against this one as well. But it's definitely not a retarded idea, atleast from what I know. (I'm not against anyone here, I just want to know what makes it such a bad idea. Well, I admit, the name itself is somewhat funny, but then you have Snowflake by SAS!)

Happy flying!

[Southwest737]

So basically, unless they come to Mid-America, I should give up on the STL idea?? While I may use STL as my main airport to fly out of...I am an 1 hour and 30 minutes away from it, so I don't plan on going out to MCI anytime soon, but thanks for the offer MCIFLYER.

I do agree Song is more likely to pick MCI because they already serve MCI with the 757's in reg colors. Does Delta Express still serve at MCI? I know they used to, if not still do it.

I wonder if they will see if MidAmerican Airlines(former Air Florida) will do it with their 757's and if it works for them, then they will bring there own SONG 757's at Mid-America.

Also....I know I am thinking WAAAAAY to ahead, but it would be neat if they had a SONG connect-CRJ's and ERJ would look cool I THINK in those SONG colors. but I don't wanna get off topic...

I hope SONG comes to MCI, or STL.

Alex.

[nyc_spotter]

Re: Most retarded idea??

I am at a loss as to why Song is the most retarded idea. Can you explain why so? Sure, it's not the greatest idea on the planet, but considering the dire need for dough the majors currently have, it's like giving it a decent shot. Yes, Song is mainly replacing Delta Express, but Song is not based on what DL Express was. It's a completely new idea, with completely new goals. Given that all other attempts at low-cost divisions by the majors have failed the odds are against this one as well. But it's definitely not a retarded idea, atleast from what I know. (I'm not against anyone here, I just want to know what makes it such a bad idea. Well, I admit, the name itself is somewhat funny, but then you have Snowflake by SAS!)

Happy flying!

Nothing tells Joe and Jamie Regular that Delta is sh*tty airline then setting up a cheap lo-co with better service on the exact same routes. If Delta were to introduce this kind of service on their mainline airline (i.e. good inflight services, understanable fares) they would be doing something good. Instead they're pumping money into their own competition.

[Foxtrop]

Re:

Hey thanks nyc_spotter! I see what you're saying. It's kinda like killing your airline with something that you've coined.

[MCIFLYR]

Southwest737, hopefully we can see them at both STL and MCI, but it all depends on this air florida stuff and the success of Song. I think it would be a hit at MCI, because currently we do NOT have service to MIA, FLL, or PBI (but to RSW, MCO, and TPA), so i dont really know. Delta Express was here for about 2-3 years, and left soon after 9-11, when Vanguard added MCO and FLL, and Southwest picked up more MCO routes!!! There is a definite market for MO-FLL/MIA/PBI due to the cruises departing, and when i was on both NJ flights, they were full, and what i could tell, most pax had a final destination of MCI. I was hoping maybe when WN expands to 16-18 gates here we can get a FLL route. Who knows, anything's possible in this environment!!!

[Air1727]

I wouldn't hold your breath Alex The folks who purchased the old Paradise Island certificate and are planning the Air Florida/MidAmerica op at BLV are in for a rude awakening. If they cannot hold or gain charter contracts to fill seats, Mid-America airport will become a ghost town soon enough once again. I call it the "field of dreams", because it had huge goals of success, which were actually nothing but empty rhetoric and hope to lure traffic from STL which will never happen. And being that St. Clair county is more crooked than Cape Cod, you can guarantee it will be one big broadway show. The only promise BLV has is becoming a heavy mod center and repair station. Other than that, count on flying out of STL.

As for Song, I would love to see them fly to STL, but that would be wishful thinking. I think in this current stage of the game, Delta is more concerned with trying to see if Song has good potential. For now, I would count on them sticking to the previous Delta Express markets for some time to come. Now if American for some reason has major troubles, and STL becomes a slowly developing ghost town like MCI, Delta would probably pick up the slack, but only with its mainline operation, using larger aircraft such as the 757. If Delta was smart, they would make their entire operation based on Song. Trying to run two airlines under one roof is nothing but headache.

[Southwest737]

Southwest737, hopefully we can see them at both STL and MCI, but it all depends on this air florida stuff and the success of Song. I think it would be a hit at MCI, because currently we do NOT have service to MIA, FLL, or PBI (but to RSW, MCO, and TPA), so i dont really know. Delta Express was here for about 2-3 years, and left soon after 9-11, when Vanguard added MCO and FLL, and Southwest picked up more MCO routes!!! There is a definite market for MO-FLL/MIA/PBI due to the cruises departing, and when i was on both NJ flights, they were full, and what i could tell, most pax had a final destination of MCI. I was hoping maybe when WN expands to 16-18 gates here we can get a FLL route. Who knows, anything's possible in this environment!!!

While WN does have flights to FL, ALL of them require a connecting stop at least. We have only ONE non-stop flight and its only on Saturday. american operates the 757 out of DSTL non-stop to FLL, as well as MCO. However AA also sometime suses the MD-80 for STL-MCO-STL trips. One questions, for flight to most florida cities out of MCI on AA do you have to connect in STL, or ORD, or even DFW?? We do not have any TPA service, or WBI, they require a connect in DFW for ST;L flights, I believe. I may be wrong on this. How soon is WN expanding the gates at MCI?

Alex.

[Southwest737]

I wouldn't hold your breath Alex The folks who purchased the old Paradise Island certificate and are planning the Air Florida/MidAmerica op at BLV are in for a rude awakening. If they cannot hold or gain charter contracts to fill seats, Mid-America airport will become a ghost town soon enough once again. I call it the "field of dreams", because it had huge goals of success, which were actually nothing but empty rhetoric and hope to lure traffic from STL which will never happen. And being that St. Clair county is more crooked than Cape Cod, you can guarantee it will be one big broadway show. The only promise BLV has is becoming a heavy mod center and repair station. Other than that, count on flying out of STL.

As for Song, I would love to see them fly to STL, but that would be wishful thinking. I think in this current stage of the game, Delta is more concerned with trying to see if Song has good potential. For now, I would count on them sticking to the previous Delta Express markets for some time to come. Now if American for some reason has major troubles, and STL becomes a slowly developing ghost town like MCI, Delta would probably pick up the slack, but only with its mainline operation, using larger aircraft such as the 757. If Delta was smart, they would make their entire operation based on Song. Trying to run two airlines under one roof is nothing but headache.

Yeah, I really doubt Mid-America will work, it makes me wonder why it was even built!!!

Delta already serves STL with non-stop flights to ATL with the MD-88 and CVG with COMAIR. So whether or not it would be wise to add another non-stop flight on a 757 in SONG colors is up to them, but you know I will go for it, even if it means taking out the non-stop service to ATL, Heck I never go to ATL so I don't really care for that service. Oh wel, was just hoping that for once we might actually have had another low-cost airline come to STL, all we have is SWA, and thats it. While I truly really do love WN, it kinda gets tiring to see the same bornw and blue schemes over and over, as well as the Red, White, and Blue(AA.) I kinda wish Jetblue, and AirTran would service STL with non-stops flights to JFK(JB) and ATL(AirTran). Maybe when Delta pulls out of the STL-ATL-STL route. I wonder how succesful is the STL-ATL-STL route??

Alex.

[Air1727]

Depending on the season, Delta serves STL with anything from a 737-300 to a 757-200. During the heavy holiday seasons, it is very common for Delta to put 757s on the schedule because of capacity. Because STL is at capacity, and the markets are saturated, it is not a target for more airline entrance. jetBlue and Air Tran will only go if they see it as a place to make money, and spending everyday fighting with Southwest and American is not something they want to do. They would much rather enter into high gross markets they know they can pull weight on. As far as the STL-ATL market being profitable, sure it can be, but thats up to the pricing and yield departments. Just because an aircraft is full doesn't mean they are making money. When I used to work for Trans World Airlines in STL, AirTran was in talks with us during pre-bankruptcy planning on buying assets in STL, but Air Tran did not have the money to pull the weight TWA had. American was the only contestant in the picture. If Trans World was disected though, you could be assured that STL would be more varied than it is now.

As for STL and Florida markets, Southwest at one time had many more non-stop runs to destinations in Florida when it put itself on the map, but because more flights have been focused on Florida, Southwest sees the stops to be better for aircraft utilization. American Trans Air at one time during the mid 90s had a gateway in Saint Louis operating several flights a day down to Fort Lauderdale, Orlando, and Fort Myers. That went by the wayside fairly fast when Trans World matched them and burried their attempt at success. Saint Louis was also served by US Airways MetroJet for some time to the northeast market, but that was also pushed by the wayside.

[MCIFLYR]

Actually, i just checked, and while PBI is not served by AA from STL, TPA is served with 9 flights a day (M80/757!!). So unless AA decides to pull out some of those routes in order to cut costs, i seriously doubt song's entrance any time soon. STL is a very cool airport (can't beat the 94th Aerosquadron's patio), and it would be much cooler to see something other than the AA MD80/757 one after another, with some WN's mixed in there, but STL is already overserved in terms of O&D traffic, and I dont see any expansion until AA thins out operations!!! To answer your question about MCI, the plan is to increase flights from 70+/day to 120/day!!! WN uses about 1/3 of Terminal B right now (9 gates), and eventually will occupy about 3/4 of terminal B (approx 18 gates), with delta occupying 5 gates, leaving 7 gates for expansion. This will be complete hopefully by the middle of 2004, as Southwest will be moving around so a new, improved space with 50% more concessions and even more space can be renovated, geez, i could start a thread on this damn reply!!! I think i answered all your questions.......lol