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Well i'm assuming that the Boeing 772LR's competition is the Airbus A345. As these are the 2 longest range planes that each manufacturer produces. Why are there so little airlines pruchasing the 777. I no that the 772LR is probably more exprensive to buy but wouldnt it save you alot more. According to the manufacturers spec the A345 goes about 8650 miles while using 56,750 gallons of fuel and hold 313 passengers to the manufacturers layout. But on the other hand the B772LR goes 9420 miles while using only 53,440 gallons of fuel and holding 301 passengers to the manufacturers layout. I just dont see why the 772LR has so less orders when it will cost less to operate.
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In case you haven't been paying attention lately, the 772LR airframe has already surpassed the A345 in orders (many of which will be firmed by years end).
Basically, the airlines were unsure of the dynamics of the C-market, and waited to test the A340. The A345, in true A340 fashion, fell somewhat short of what it was originally promoted to do (though to its credit, Airbus has been able to get a bit more performance out of the piece of crap in the last two years)
Also keep in mind that the "A340NGs" have been available for 7 years, whereas the "777NGs" have only been around 5 (yet, in true 777 fashion, have already well outsold their A340 counterparts).
The 772LR was also went into a 17month freeze in October of 2001 within which Boeing did no development work and barely promoted the aircraft at all.
A lot of these factors contributed to the 77C's pathetically slow start, but as recent times are revealing; it's clearly the preferred 300seater C-market aircraft. -
What I don't understand is that why the A346 and 773ER are so closely matched but the 772LR blows the A345 outta the water? Aren't they essentially the same designs?"If it weren't for the 777LR, I would love the A345"
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The A345 carries a lot more relative deadweight than does the A346... a big factor.Originally posted by Kadena_TroopComment
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Why I said that the 772LR has less orders is cause on the side of the 2nd production plane it only shows that 4 airlines have ordered it so far. PIA, EVA, AC, Air India.Comment
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Add Air France and Jet Airways to that.Originally posted by mariner75
....as will soon be EY (once they decide whether or not to include pax with their freighters).
Also, while only 6 airlines have thusfar ordered-- have you checked against the number of A345 orders by its 5 airlines?Comment
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Well the way it's looking now. Airbus lost another one.
As were on the topic of A vs. B, what about the A320 vs. the B738
They both have just under 1400 in operation to date but the 738's range is a lot farther when using a little more fuel but holds more cargo.Comment
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Although Qatar had not announced it as part of their 777 commitment, WD002 (which is/was in Beijing) now has a decal for QR.Originally posted by ConcordeBoyadaequatio rei et intellectus Comment
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Although, the B738's range is farther than the A320, not many airlines use each aircraft to their full range capacity, because by then widebodies become more economical. It would be best to compare the A32S family and B737NG family, as it provides airlines more options and flexibility, because some types have advantages over the other.Originally posted by mariner75- The baby will be back -Comment
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Originally posted by ConcordeBoy
Like what?
Also, on the A346, I have seen some pics where you can go "downstairs" to use the bathrooms and for the crew rest cabins. Is this on all A346s or is it an option? Can it be done on the A345? Would it be economical to do so?Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.Comment
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Approximate A345/346 and 772LR/773ER Design Weights:Originally posted by AA 1818
Aircraft MTOW OEW MZFW A345HGW 380T/840,400lbs 175T/385,400lbs 232T/511,500lbs A346HGW 380T/840,400lbs 182T/400,900lbs 251T/553,400lbs 773ER 351.5T/775,000lbs 167.8/370,000lbs 237.6T/524,000lbs 772LR 347.8T/766,800lbs 145.1/320,000lbs 209.1T/461,000lbs
These figure, IINM, includes typical aircraft furnishings and excludes the crew rest cabins (Overhead for B and Cargo Hold modules for A).
The A340's structure is inherently heavier than the 777's. An empty A345HGW is even heavier than an empty 773ER.
These are optional and are also available on the A345. These modules take up cargo space (crew rest replaces 2 LD3's). If the modules are not used, Passenger revenue space in the cabin is lost due to crew needs. As an example, cabin crewrest for Pilots use about 1 or 2 First Class or Business Class seats and for Y cabin crew, around 8 to 12 Economy Class seats.Originally posted by AA 1818
Edit: Figures put in Table Formatadaequatio rei et intellectus Comment
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Thanks for the info. I always thought that they were preety evenly matched, but that is a hell of a difference!
What airlines have "downstairs" on their A340s?Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.Comment
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Airbus has struggled to keep this the case with the A346, and considering what a piece of sh!t that airframe is; they've done a remarkably decent job.Originally posted by AA 1818
...the A345 however is so blatantly outclassed by its 777 rival that there's really not much Airbus can do for it. Notice how they've pulled nearly all of their [public] advertisements for that derivative?
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Having a larger frame to distribute the aircraft's weight does help. If the HGW does hit its design range, we'll see a few more orders for this model.Originally posted by ConcordeBoy
Although the A358 has a smaller passenger capacity, its range is now C-Market and will probably replace the A345 in Airbus' future C-Market campaigns.Originally posted by ConcordeBoy...the A345 however is so blatantly outclassed by its 777 rival that there's really not much Airbus can do for it. Notice how they've pulled nearly all of their [public] advertisements for that derivative?adaequatio rei et intellectus Comment
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Agree with you...Originally posted by vojoboy
...but that is, of course, assuming (and we all know my feelings on assumption) that it actually hits its promoted range specs. We both know that that's quite a roll of the dice with Airbus widebodies.Comment
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