A380 biofuel?

[Alessandro]

So RR is testing biofuel on the A380. Anyone dare to guessimate what the cost cut will be compared with ordinary fuel?
The Tu-155 flew partly (one of three engines) on alternate fuel, did all engines run on alternate fuel with the A380?

[Dmmoore]

This link has some of your answers:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-02-01-a380-biofuel_N.htm

[Alessandro]

Thanks for the link, Don.
40% on 25% of the engines, hmm, 10% of the total fuel volume, well, at least a step in one direction...

[Princess Leia]

Thanks for the link, Don.
40% on 25% of the engines, hmm, 10% of the total fuel volume, well, at least a step in one direction...

More like pissing on a forest fire.

[Will_Power]

Its kind of funny how the article title sais "biofuel" when later in the article it states that it's not biofuel, rather, it's liquid kerosene which comes from Natural Gas, a non renewable resource. It also sais that it adds just as much carbon dioxide to the atmosphere as regular jet fuel, just no sulfer.

[Alessandro]

Nag, anyways, during the 1980ies the Tu-155 flew on alternate fuel (LNG) on one of three engines for two hours at a stretch, 33% that is, not 10% as the
A380.
Mil-8 had a LNG conversion as well, one of two engines run on LNG, 50%.

[Dmmoore]

Alternate forms of fuel are coming but the cost of producing these will not be cheaper than oil. Not for a long while. The cost of developing the process and installing the infrastructure to distribute the finished product will take a while to develop. Look for fuel costs to hang around US $2.50 - 3.50 for the next few years.

[Alessandro]

Qatar got the will and money to do it.

[uy707]

As with UAE, Qatar government willingly admit a post-oil period will take place

[Alessandro]

Re-read a fair bit of the Aerostar Tu-154 book and I wonder why Tupolev never spend any
resources on converting the APU to run on LNG?
The fuel economy for the APU used was 225kg fuel for every hour. Also the Il-76 uses the same APU which mean a bigger market.
Any news about the A320 fuel cell project?

[ATFS_Crash]

Anyone dare to guessimate what the cost cut will be compared with ordinary fuel?

Why would you assume that the cost would be less, history and facts show us that in most cases that biofuels are more expensive. Otherwise we would already be using them.

Not that I’m saying that this case is actually biofuels like you claim. If it was biofuels, it has been proven that increase use of biofuels often has negative effectsl; such as when the US started to subsidize corn ethanol production. The costs of food went up worldwide. Unfortunately it was a government mandated program which was at the cost of the taxpayer and they chose to mandate an inefficient and less environmentally friendly version of ethanol. There are other food products that would have been more efficient and there are waste products that would be more environmentally friendly to produce ethanol. The government mandated program had the effect of driving up food prices and may be partly responsible for starvation and riots.

Remember that the economy is an open system and there is cause and effect. Rash changes can make fuel prices rise, food prices rise as well as other prices, it can trigger bankruptcies, inflation, riots, etc…

Ethanol Mandates Intensifies Food Shortages And Raise Prices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydMwIbC2KhY

Food Crisis, Shortages, Inflation And Ethanol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We_yUesKxk4

Pitfalls of Ethanol Fuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_syYtcy69E

While the ethanol may not be so much related to aircraft. The military already has aircraft, ground vehicles and equipment that can run on biofuels and other forms of alternative fuels. Sometimes with little or no modifications.

During World War II the Germans had one of the largest coal gasification facilities in the world. George Washington Carver and Henry Ford even researched such things as soybean and peanuts too oil and fuel. However they really weren’t cost effective.

[Alessandro]

One can argue back and forth of the benefit of biofuel, I´m a believer. Imagine the amount of biofuel that could be made in 3rd world countries that farm narcotic crops today, estimates that only in Colombia 160.000 hectars are used to grow cocaplants, to produce
nosecandy!
I think the incenitive to cut back on narcotics production is basically if the farmers get more money for the crop and biofuel could press the price up.
Latest in biofuel is that JAL flew on the 30th of january a B743 with one P&W engine on
0,5% algea, 7,5% Jathropa, 42,5% Camelina and 50 % A-jet fuel for 90 minutes.
Virgin and NZ Air has already made tests, with runing one engine on partly biofuel.

[MCM]

We will be using a kerosene based fuel for the foreseeable future.

Some technologies will emerge, such as coal to liquid and gas to liquid where other fuels can be transformed into kerosene - however it will still be kero.

It must be a drop in replacement.

The infrastructure costs alone in an alternative fuel set up are prohibitive, and engine design to take the best advantage of any other fuel will take decades to go through the whole process.

Biofuels have got many issues surrounding them (such as AFTS Crash has pointed out), and in many cases are morally wrong. It has been pointed out that "160.000 hectars are used to grow cocaplants, to produce
nosecandy!"... but how many hectares are required to provide biofuel?

Do some research on how much arable land is required to provide say 10% of the worlds aviation fuel. Then compare that to the fact we still have hunger and malnutrition throughout many parts of the world, and it has been shown that by creating a demand for biofuel, the land owners sell their crops for fuel (as they make more money) and the locals starve.

Edited to add: Here are some rough estimates.

To provide enough biofuel for current USA aviation requirements (not including any future growth), you're looking at needing over 111 MILLION hectares. Or 2.5% of the worlds current arable land. Practical? I don't think so.

[SYDCBRWOD]

The military is pushing quite a bit of this envirofuel stuff, not because they have a particularly 'green' bent but as a hedge against being strangled for fuel. The easiest way beat the F22 is to deny it the fuel to fly. The USAF have flown both B52's (some engines) and some of their teen fighters flying on biofuels.

[AA 1818]

Brazil's largest airline announced on Tuesday that it has successfully conducted what it called the first experimental flight in Latin America using aviation biofuel.

TAM Airlines said in a statement that the 45-minute flight of an Airbus A320 using biofuel made from the seeds of the Jatropha curcas tree took place on Monday off the coast of Rio de Janeiro. The statement said the biofuel was mixed half and half with conventional aviation kerosene.

Continental, Japan Airlines, Virgin Atlantic, Air New Zealand and KLM have held similar experimental flights with biofuel produced from Jatropha and other materials such as coconut oil, algae and the camelina oil seed.

The statement added that cultivating more Jatropha does not threaten food production or supply because is not edible "and can be planted along pastures and food crops."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/4...biofuel-flight

Fabulous News!