Airline Non-Hub Routes

[srbmod]

Actually, a majority of AirTran's flights do not include flying into/out of ATL. AirTran is nearing capacity out of ATL, and is shifting some flights on routes where a large number of pax were flying into ATL and transfering to an MCO flight, (which is why many cities have at least one nonstop a day to MCO) so that they can free up space for flights to new cities.

[DAL767-400ER]

Airline Non-Hub Routes

Air Tran already is at maximum capacity in ATl and they would desperately need more gates, but they don't get it, and once they get the 737s, the number of gates will be reduced because of the larger wingspan of the 737s compared to the 717. For now, Air Tran has dozens of non-hub routes, even though I would call PHL, BOS, MCO and perhaps PIT focus cities.

[FlyCharlestonSC]

For now, Air Tran has dozens of non-hub routes, even though I would call PHL, BOS, MCO and perhaps PIT focus cities.

Since when are BOS and PIT focus cities???
They only serve ATL from PIT, unless I have missed out.
They only serve PHL, BWI, and ATL from BOS. I would not call those focus cities.

I'd say their focus cities are MKE, MCO, TPA, FLL, PHL, and BWI. MAYBE all of these.

Air Tran already is at maximum capacity in ATl and they would desperately need more gates, but they don't get it, and once they get the 737s, the number of gates will be reduced because of the larger wingspan of the 737s compared to the 717.

What will they do??
Is there another terminal with free gates?

They can't really expand b/c DL is gonna build that rediculous E expansion that completely messes up the layout of ATL. I'd say that you may see more flights to BWI in the near future. Maybe even the building up of a larger focus city or a small hub at MKE.

Your thoughts?

[DAL767-400ER]

Airline Non-Hub Routes

Quote:
For now, Air Tran has dozens of non-hub routes, even though I would call PHL, BOS, MCO and perhaps PIT focus cities.

Since when are BOS and PIT focus cities???
They only serve ATL from PIT, unless I have missed out.
They only serve PHL, BWI, and ATL from BOS. I would not call those focus cities.

I'd say their focus cities are MKE, MCO, TPA, FLL, PHL, and BWI. MAYBE all of these.

I don't know if the still do, but some time ago Air Tran was trying for a major expansion out of PIT. I don't know if they were successful, but they have at least 4 gates @ PIT, which would easily allow the to handle around 30 flight/day. Aside from ATL I believe they also seve MCO and TPA. As for Boston, they were thinking of opening routes to Florida, but now they will watch how JetBlue does in the market, going against Song and AA.
You're right about BWI and MKE, and perhaps TPA, but I doubt that FLL is a focus city. Don't they only fly to ATL from FLL?

What will they do??
Is there another terminal with free gates?

They can't really expand b/c DL is gonna build that rediculous E expansion that completely messes up the layout of ATL.

Well, Concourse D is very underserved. It has 38 gates which are used as follows
DL: 11 gates at the north end
CO/NW: 4 gates, although that can change
AC: 1 gate
US: 2-3 gates
F9: 1 gate
HP: 1 gate
FL: 2 gates, basically for Jet Connect

so currently, only about 25 gates are actually used, but there are "lease problems" or something that prevent FL from getting them.
As for other expansion, I think the new int'l terminal isn't as bad as the other proposal. Also ATL is overhauling its concourses, and that's especially necessary in D, which is old and narrow, and C, which is a complete mess at the ASA ops, and the FL area is also often overcrowded.
ATL is still proposing a new South Terminal to be built between the the current airport and the new runway, and it would be ideal for FL, as they and Delta could then basically have their own terminal and won't have to fight about gates anymore, but the South Terminal is still years away. Rwy 10/28 and the Int'l Terminal are top priority now.

[srbmod]

AirTran/AirTran JetConnect, America West, Frontier, and JetBlue share gates on D. These five gates are directly owned by the airport. JetConnect and a few mainline AirTran flights are themain user of the gates, as JetBlue's two flights are out by 7 am at the latest, Frontier has 2 flights a day (one in the morning, one in the afternoon), America West's has 5 flights a day, and 3 of them are before noon, and they park one of their a/c (the late morning flight) over on E under they need it. These gates are also used by Vacation Express for flights, and OAI and ATA use the gates for AMC charters. Here's the gate breakdown and ownership on D:

Gates 1-5,9:
Airport owned (shared gates)

Gates 6,8,10,12:
Continental

Gate 7:
Midwest

Gate 11:
Air Canada

Gates 13-16:
Northwest

Gates 21,23,25:
US Airways

Gates 22,24,26,27,29,28,30,31,32:
Delta Connection

Gate 33:
Song

Gates 34,35:
Delta

[FlyCharlestonSC]

Air Tran better find new gates somewhere!

[DAL767-400ER]

Airline Non-Hub Routes

Thanks for the exact breakdown, srbmod. But doesn't DL have more gates in D going up to gate 38? I mean, the gate numbers in D and especially in C, but also in A, B and E, are kind of fishy, especially with Delta Connection, which uses one gate for several flights.
Btw. srbmod since you are working at ATL, do you happen to know how many parking positions ASA has in C? It always seems like a mess to me.
Thanks in advance.

[srbmod]

I used to know how many parking spots ASA had on C back when I worked for them a few years back, but they redid the entire setup once they moved ATR ops over to D and added the CRJ-700s (had to redo the C gate setup due to the length of the 700s).
The reason why C and D had less gates it the fact that they are not as long of concourses as A and B. It goes back to when the current set up was designed. Eastern had input in the design of B North and all of C, and the airlines that were to operate out of D (Continental, Piedmont, Southern (merged with Republic by the time the next complex opened), United and American (these two actually decreased their presence @ ATL about the time the new complex opened). Since all of the airlines that were to be on D had small operations @ ATL, they did not need as many gates as A or B, so the concourse was not as large as the others (is narrower than the others as well). I can't fully figure out why Eastern did not put in as many gates as the could have on C, other than perhaps to have room for feeder operations at both ends.

[FlyCharlestonSC]

Maybe they should expand those concourses instead of building the E addition.

[DAL767-400ER]

Airline Non-Hub Routes

Thanks for the quick and interesting answer, srbmod .

Maybe they should expand those concourses instead of building the E addition.

They definitely should, especially the should build a dedicated Delta Connection concourse. For some time I was "improving" the masterplan in Paint, and judging from the width of the dual taxiways between each two concourses, which are wide enough to handle 767s and perhaps even 777s, and seeing that they are used by nothing larger than 757s, I had the idea of a U-shaped northern C-Concourse for ASA, with two fingers that are joined in the middle of the current Concourse where the train station is. I have no measures of the taxiways etc. but I think that could be possible.

[FlyCharlestonSC]

Could you post some of your improvements?

I would be really interested!

[DAL767-400ER]

Airline Non-Hub Routes

Could you post some of your improvements?

I would be really interested!

If I can find the file I might, but I would have to upload it from my own computer, so that's gonna take a while. But don't expect too much. As I said it is only my own Paint version of the actual ATL Masterplan and it doesn't look professional at all. It's just a "what if" scenario.

[FlyCharlestonSC]

That's ok.

I have tried to update things like that with paint, but I end up printing it of airnav.com, whiting out, and re-drawing.

[DAL767-400ER]

Airline Non-Hub Routes

Ok her is my version of the ATL Masterplan (hope this works):



The "future Concourse C is in the red circle. At this point It has the shape of an H, as Air Tran will already be moved into the South Terminal with it's 2 concourses. As you can see the original masterplan isn't up to date anymore, as still shows the old plans for the new international terminal
It's a good start, but maybe I'll follow you're example and try Airnav next.

[srbmod]

OK, I've edited my Concourse D gate list, as today I had an opportunity to go by D and found I had not listed enough gates. So my earlier list is now corrected.