Diamond DA42 Accident

[Uncle Jay]

There recently was an accident in Germany in which both engines shut down on gear retraction. The aircraft was a Diamond DA42, the diesel powered TwinStar.

The scenario unfolded thus - the battery died and the aircraft had to be jump started. Takeoff went OK but raising the gear caused an electrical drop which normally a charged battery would have masked. The result was, both ECU's shut down, and therefore both engines.

Probably the pilot could have restarted the engines given airspeed and altitude (the two things you cant get back).. but not with a dead battery.

Interesting situation.

This would not have happened on a traditional magneto ignition engine. However my experience with Cessnas and Pipers has been that, the engine keeps on ticking but the panel goes dark or a fire starts. Same end result.
I had 2 dark C-210 panels and a Seminole with under panel smoke.

Nothing concentrates the mind like being hanged.. or the sound of 2 silent engines 100 feet above the ground.

Given that the 2010 TwinStar with the soon to be released new engines will be close to $ 700,000... does it make more sense to buy a Piper Matrix ?

Or, you could drop 700 large into a perfect new-remanufacture Aerostar and go lots faster. Fuel burn and maintenance aside. Or a used P-Baron for the same money.

yes I spend much idle time looking at airplane ads and dreaming away.

[groundpounder]

There recently was an accident in Germany in which both engines shut down on gear retraction. The aircraft was a Diamond DA42, the diesel powered TwinStar.

The scenario unfolded thus - the battery died and the aircraft had to be jump started. Takeoff went OK but raising the gear caused an electrical drop which normally a charged battery would have masked. The result was, both ECU's shut down, and therefore both engines.

Probably the pilot could have restarted the engines given airspeed and altitude (the two things you cant get back).. but not with a dead battery.

Interesting situation.

This would not have happened on a traditional magneto ignition engine. However my experience with Cessnas and Pipers has been that, the engine keeps on ticking but the panel goes dark or a fire starts. Same end result.
I had 2 dark C-210 panels and a Seminole with under panel smoke.

Nothing concentrates the mind like being hanged.. or the sound of 2 silent engines 100 feet above the ground.

Given that the 2010 TwinStar with the soon to be released new engines will be close to $ 700,000... does it make more sense to buy a Piper Matrix ?

Or, you could drop 700 large into a perfect new-remanufacture Aerostar and go lots faster. Fuel burn and maintenance aside. Or a used P-Baron for the same money.

yes I spend much idle time looking at airplane ads and dreaming away.

This incident happened quite a while ago, and as a result there was an AD for the aircraft in the US to prevent this from happening again.

[Spad13]

There recently was an accident in Germany in which both engines shut down on gear retraction. The aircraft was a Diamond DA42, the diesel powered TwinStar.


Given that the 2010 TwinStar with the soon to be released new engines will be close to $ 700,000... does it make more sense to buy a Piper Matrix ?

Or, you could drop 700 large into a perfect new-remanufacture Aerostar and go lots faster. Fuel burn and maintenance aside. Or a used P-Baron for the same money.

yes I spend much idle time looking at airplane ads and dreaming away.

I think part of the problem with the TwinStar is that it was hugely oversold in terms of capability. What you basically get for all that money is a much cooler-looking, much more long-legged Seminole with about the same speed as a PA-44 and about the same carrying capacity. So, the question essentially becomes whether or not the fact that it burns between its two engines what a Seminole burns per side makes it worth nearly twice what a Seminole goes for. In fairness to Diamond, I doubt if they could have predicted the troubles that befell Thielert and the resulting extended ground times for the TwinStar. Now, the new version with "normal" engines will largely erase the efficiency advantage, thereby making the airplane even less attractive.

As for the comparison with the Matrix, I'm not sure that's entirely fair either. For one, I don't quite understand why Piper had to release what's basically a Saratoga that looks like a Malibu. Time will tell, I guess.

The piston twin market is VERY depressed right now and there are bargains to be had everywhere. A P-Baron wouldn't be my first choice, however, not when there are very nice E-55s to be had for well south of $100,000.

[groundpounder]

I've heard that the Matrix has sold 100+ airframes this year alone, far surpassing what Piper thought it would sell. It carrys alot more payload then the Saratoga, and is alot cheaper than the Malibu. I also heard that Piper might get rid of the Saratoga line altogether.

[Uncle Jay]

Matrix

I think the reason the Matrix sells so well is, its a cabin class airplane. If they could do a major weight and cost reduction exercise it would sell even better. In fact they could impinge on Cirrus/Cessna 400/Mooney S territory - but I guess they know that.

The Diamond TwinStar is being re-released with more powerful diesel engines.
Really what it needs is turbocharged TIO-360s not just IO-360s. otherwise its permanently relegated to training roles. It also needs side stick controls. I would really hate having to read a chart with that stick poking through it.

Yes I know charts are on the MFDs .. in that case you have to have the Garmin instruction manual open in your lap, same deal.

I agree, Barons are a hell of a deal these days. I picked the P Baron just because its so undervalued.

[Spad13]

The Diamond TwinStar is being re-released with more powerful diesel engines.
Really what it needs is turbocharged TIO-360s not just IO-360s. otherwise its permanently relegated to training roles. It also needs side stick controls. I would really hate having to read a chart with that stick poking through it.

Yes I know charts are on the MFDs .. in that case you have to have the Garmin instruction manual open in your lap, same deal.

If they put TIOs on it, it will probably sticker for over a mil. It's going to be a tough enough sell as it is. As for the G1000, I found it very intuitive in a T206H, can't imagine it'd be much worse in a TwinStar.

[JJR]

I think it's kind of weird that the diesel engines quit, and they don't "diesel" (read as stay running without power to the ignition.) Then again I'm sure there is technology built into the engines, as they have probably changed from the old ones in the 80's....

[Dmmoore]

I think it's kind of weird that the diesel engines quit, and they don't "diesel" (read as stay running without power to the ignition.) Then again I'm sure there is technology built into the engines, as they have probably changed from the old ones in the 80's....

The engines do not have ignition systems however, they are electronically controlled for fuel scheduling. The engines should have an independent power supply / dedicated battery to provide power to the FADEC system.

FADEC controlled jet engines use a dedicated, engine driven generator to provide emergency power.

[JJR]

Thank you for the insight! Boy it's come a long way from carbs, and thier floats!!!

[Spad13]

Thank you for the insight! Boy it's come a long way from carbs, and thier floats!!!

I hope so.

[E-Diddy!]

Thank you for the insight! Boy it's come a long way from carbs, and thier floats!!!

Actually it really hasn't, most of the small aircraft flying today are really nothing more than glorified lawnmowers.

[brianw999]

Yes I know charts are on the MFDs .. in that case you have to have the Garmin instruction manual open in your lap, same deal.

Huh !!

You mean to tell us that you go flying using instruments that you haven't first thoroughly familiarised yourself in the use of ?