Polish President and wife killed in Tu-154 crash

[guamainiac]

With Vlad the Impaler taking over Saab as we speak .. ??

Hey, FBI don't clear me, I get private company to say I am innocent right?

[Northwester]

I am not going to restate what I posted previously, but there are gaps and contradictions in the Russian report that indicate manipulation of data. Any thinking person can draw his/her own conclusions.

[guamainiac]

There are always going to be a gap in a translation, narrative or witness reports.

This is one of the rare cases I will probably think Putin is going to be straight up ... well, as much as the KGB can be.

Please don't lump all Poles like that. It is akin to "all Germans were Nazi".

[guamainiac]

How many Poles were on here indicating a plot?

One.

Nice generalization.

[Peter_K]

Re: returning of the wreckage and the black boxes.

Remember the Belorussian Su-27 crash at an airshow in Radom? Did Poland return the wreckage and black boxes before the investigation was over?

I think you are forgetting that this crash is being investigated by 4 different committees. MAK finished their investigation. It's aim was to find what caused the crash. The Polish report on that matter from the Polish committee is still not ready.
Besides those two, the crash is still being investigated by Polish and Russian prosecutors. The aim of those investigation is to find out who is to blame for the crash. Russians said that once their prosecutors investigation is fished, the wreckage and BB will be returned to Poland.

[justLOT787]

There was no pressure by the president as far as we know. It's time for Russians to return the Black boxes back to Poland. If Poland gets the boxes back then every thing will be explained like it was, the general drunk, was he in the cockpit during landing (during landing in any aircraft all people are seated, it's loud from the engines and pilots have ear peaces on to talk to the ATC so the general probably was not in the cockpit talking too pilots while landing. Same goes for the president he was not forcing them to land) The thing is that all those reports are coming out from one source. That source is Russian gov. as long as they have the boxes and the wrack they will tell you what they want too tell you, they will bend the truth to please people like some of you. Look I want the real truth and as long as Russians have the evidence of this crash on their soil then we will never know the truth. I believe that the accident was probably accident caused by wrong information from ATC and that is what Russia is hiding they are hiding their mistakes and protecting the wrong people.

[guamainiac]

And from what was known, he bullied the other pilot.

Out of how many posts that I've read on this forum, that seems to be a statement grounded in fact based on the Polish military. Did the other pilot lie?



Ask the French or Spain to go get the boxes. BTW, even reading the statements by the Polish journalists per "Northwestern", I see no sign of conspiracy. I have never trusted "them" .... Putin is still an a-wipe in my book. The only item I will back off on is the freaking goofy searchlights in the field.

This type of accident is common as a cow flop in Kansas when it comes to busting minimums ... behind the power curve not to mention off center line ... read on the recent Irish crash, same stuff perhaps and as they said in Hawaii Five O ... "Dano, round up the usual suspects".

Wait, wait! Did the Ruskies rig the Irish crunch to cover up the ...

[Northwester]

And from what was known, he bullied the other pilot.

Out of how many posts that I've read on this forum, that seems to be a statement grounded in fact based on the Polish military. Did the other pilot lie?
Ask the French or Spain to go get the boxes. BTW, even reading the statements by the Polish journalists per "Northwestern", I see no sign of conspiracy. I have never trusted "them" .... Putin is still an a-wipe in my book. The only item I will back off on is the freaking goofy searchlights in the field.

This type of accident is common as a cow flop in Kansas when it comes to busting minimums ... behind the power curve not to mention off center line ... read on the recent Irish crash, same stuff perhaps and as they said in Hawaii Five O ... "Dano, round up the usual suspects".

Wait, wait! Did the Ruskies rig the Irish crunch to cover up the ...

A lot of people in Poland are not interested in the whole affair anymore, but in the recent survey over 70% of Poles said that they believe they will never find out the whole truth about it.
There is a show produced by Dutch TV that you might want to see to realize where some of the opinions are coming from. I am not taking sides here, just find it interesting.
http://youtu.be/_c6bqHONRMc
http://youtu.be/1iK2LQ5quSM
http://youtu.be/0u68eXju_2A
http://youtu.be/zp-jmpBLht4
(there are 4 parts)

[justLOT787]

To understand evil you have to live throe evil! Russia is that evil, communism is that evil. After the war Stalin said to Rosevelt it's not Germany that is our greatest accomplishment but it's Poland. Lenin said we have to wipe out all Poles. This is being learned by Russian communists these days. If Russia admits it or not they hate Poles, Poland and they will do every thing possible to hurt Poland example 4-10-10. Look This is how I see things I don't see them one way. I know that this accident was not just accident it was some thing more. Russia will NEVER ever forgive Poland for breaking up communism USSR. Polish president represented what Putin is trying to cover up and that is Freedom, Democracy and Happiness. Mr. Kaczynski wanted a free Poland a strong Poland independent Poland. But if you have that then you will not buy gas from Russia and Putin did not like that! Russia is a godless country that is why they are so evil. One year ago the crash was not a accident but acct of terror. To this day Russia is holding on to Black Boxes and the wrack they don't let Polish investigators near it because they are afraid that the truth will emerge and will hurt them in the eyes of the world and America. Take this any way you want it but his is my way of seeing things and my way of shering some truth with you. If it was truly just a freak of nature accident then let Russia give back the black boxes and the planes wrack back to Poland. How would you feel if it Russians would treat America or any other country like they treat Poland with this accident. All I want is the real truth not some made up stories by MAK.

[guamainiac]

With the status of the US somewhere between 3'rd and 2'nd world what do you want?

Go ask the noble Swedes or are they too busy kissing Vladmir Antonov's adz? The Swedes are sucking up pathetically to this thug. No surprise when you look at the history of SAAB. They were not born of jets, they were born of American stupidity and Nazi propellers, this is not my imagination it is from the book that Saab gave me in 1989 on the company history. From memory, the start up funds came from Junkers and Fokker with a minor infusion in purchased license arrangements from building the Texan/Harvard. There are even photos of a Texan in Nazi "livery".

Appeal to Geneva?

Oh, I still see no indication that this was anything but an accident. If the head of state did not bully the first pilot in line your case would be a bit stronger on the "supposition" angle.

Just to let you know, Poles in my old neighborhood indicate as recent emigres, they can no longer afford to return with the US economy in decline. Many are stuck in a combat zone ... with the drug gangs just blocks away. Indeed there was a horrible invasion yesterday. Leaving 4 young Poles tied and bound and "they" slashed ones face with a box cutter almost to the point of "beyond recognition". Right across from our church, the family kielbasa business (not joking), and my childhood school.

Who will help us?

[guamainiac]

OK, two Poles so I stand corrected.

BTW, the "grassy knoll" thing refers to the Kennedy assassination and all of the conspiracy theories. Now it was in my "job spec" to be a bit paranoiac and watch for shadows and that has been a long standing but in some ways serious personal "joke".

Who killed Kennedy? I have always wondered why they did not go back and examine the "sound" of the shots. Take the radio of the motorcycle officer and the same equipment. Each weapon and load will have a signature? Take a Mannlicher-Carcano and a few other rifles as a control and pop a few shots of from Dealey Plaza in the Depository. Some things have changed so they should have done this years ago.

If the acoustic profile matches or comes real close .. ?? Not me, but many can tell what weapon and even by the sound of the action if there is a round in the chamber.

[Peter Kesternich]

justLOT787 - how old are you?

[Peter_K]

To understand evil you have to live throe evil!

SOme how I think you are too young to remember communism. I on the other hand could tell you a lot. For one thing, Clint Eastwood was right in the Heartbreak Ridge when he sad that Kalashnikov makes a very distinctive sound when fired at you.

Mr. Kaczynski wanted a free Poland a strong Poland independent Poland.

I want many things too. Could you list three most important things that Mr. Kaczynski managed to accomplish?

[guamainiac]

Old enough to remember hiding in fear during the wail of the sirens.

Old enough to remember Nikita's "We Will Bury You" speech at the UN and yes I realize that our machine spun it and they dropped the last word .. "economically".

And Mr. Reagan did not bring down any wall. A nice and convenient bit of political sentiment though.

Old enough to fly over the same Russian "trawler" that sat in the same spot and give them a wave.

Old enough to remember cheering Sputnik and enough to remember fearing the missiles in Cuba.



Pissed at reading the Brit take that the Cuban crisis was a red herring ... and tend to agree that on most days they spin a good yarn. And a few years ago I remember sitting in an old military base that overlooked the Twin Towers and seeing a huge mural of Putin on the wall and screaming.

[Peter_K]

Old enough to remember hiding in fear during the wail of the sirens.

Old enough to remember Nikita's "We Will Bury You" speech at the UN and yes I realize that our machine spun it and they dropped the last word .. "economically".

And Mr. Reagan did not bring down any wall. A nice and convenient bit of political sentiment though.

Old enough to fly over the same Russian "trawler" that sat in the same spot and give them a wave.

Old enough to remember cheering Sputnik and enough to remember fearing the missiles in Cuba.



Pissed at reading the Brit take that the Cuban crisis was a red herring ... and tend to agree that on most days they spin a good yarn. And a few years ago I remember sitting in an old military base that overlooked the Twin Towers and seeing a huge mural of Putin on the wall and screaming.

You seem like an alright guy Guamainiac. Let me know if you are ever in Poland.

I'm also old enough to remember when the "ENTER" key on the computer keyboard was called "RETURN". .