US condemns Airbus plea for government help

[ConcordeBoy]

No NDP gain but they arent paying for a war that they dont belong in.

...which, if you'll take the emotion out of the statement and actually look at tangible corroboration (you know, those thingies called numbers )-- you'd see that the direct USA monetary investment in the Iraq war/operation, if added to the EU NDP on a net microeconomic scale, is a relative pittance at best.

They dont have a GIGANTIC national debt like we do (thanks Dubya).

Again, you're comparing a microeconomic perspective of the EU to the USA market as a whole-- anecdotal.

Did you ever stop to check the size of say, Germany's, national debt vis-a-vis it's GDP? Surpassed the EU's 3% cap longgggg time ago, yet no one seems to be "noticing" that.

Now try France... notice any similarity?

Now try Italy... seeing a pattern here yet?

Sure none of them have anywhere near the staggering aggregate figure that is the current (and tragic/inexcusable, don't get me wrong!) USA debt... but don't ya think that that might have just a little something to do with them not having anywhere near the GDP to accumulate said total?

They have more potential

...more potential (for) what?

If you're thinking that more people automatically equates to higher linear economic potential as we know it... guess again. Seen either China or India lately?

so i dont know what you're talking about when you say they dont have any short-term change in sight.

What I'm talking about is Germany expending more than 30% of its domestic expenditure (up from 17.6%) on social programs yet STILL facing rising unemployment year on year.

What I'm talking about is France slashing market rates and still facing burgeoning inflation. This not to mention the severe burden their "sanctuary status" has placed upon their welfare programs.

What I'm talking about is Italy subsidizing national corporations at rates even Brussels cannot turn a blind eye to, and still facing unparalleled lows in housing and in-migration.

...what I'm talking about is this magical world-dominating-superpower that some of you are praying for night and day isn't just going to pop into existence with the wave of a magic wand. Its member nation/states must first fall into order of net economic expansion, and with few exception, that isn't happening right now; nor do any of the standard economic indicators predict it will any time in the near future.

[MaltaAirSpotter]

my two Euros worth...

Bloomin economists aren't we all?

Every government has the right to spend its oney in a way that best serves the national interest. Canadair gets some form of government aid ( just ask EMBRAER about that). Airbus gets LOANS from government. And since all its programmes to date were great successes, these loans were repaid down to the last Euro....

Most businesses finance their capital expansion through some for of lending - that's capitalistic enough as a concept uh?

Well, European governments have deemed it acceptable to offer Airbus a loan. If Airus cannot repay it, well then the company would probably be bankrupt anyway, so it would still be classified as a bad debt anyway.

So please let us do business in our own dirty way, because Yanks dont do it any cleaner.

Why should Boeing be crying foul? Isnt its 737NG and 787 miles ahead of Airbus? Why all this worry about what they describe so passionately as an inferior product? They're only afraid because they're right to be afraid - we Europeans can finally build a damn good plane once again!

We dont call these subsidies - they are investments in European know-how, European technology, and European jobs. Every government should do that, especially when this investment is paid back!

[billiam]

Different ways of doing "business"

The problem with these gov't loans to 'bus is that they negate some of the risk in launching an airliner. They don't have to pay it back if they don't sell enough of them, and by borrowing less from traditional sources, banks and other entities are exposed to less risk if the aircraft flops, making it somewhat easier for 'bus to get that loan. If 'bus is so good, why don't they put their money where their mouth is and launch an airliner by itself?

The other problem with these loans is that they are considered ILLEGAL under WTO rules. The US and europe had earlier agreed NOT to take the matter to the WTO back in the '90s. But now that 'bus has gotten good enough, 'bus shouldn't NEED these loans anymore.

And the argument that Boeing gets defense contracts as susidies doesn't work, since the US Gov't awards contracts not only to Boeing, but to Lockheed and Northrup Grumman as well. Nevermind the fact that eads, 'bus parent get contracts for its eurofigher, airtanker, a400m. Some say the value of defense contracts for eads exceeds the value of contracts that Boeing has.

What about tax breaks? Boeing (and other aerospace companies) qualifies for tax breaks that are given to companies within a certain industry. The fact that eads is willing to take advantage of these in their location of choice for their proposed plant in the US further weakens the argument against the tax breaks.

What about the Japanese "subsidies"? The the gov't of Japan does is similar to what Washington state does: give tax breaks to a certain INDUSTRY (vs aid/loans to a specific company). In fact, eads/'bus do business with the same suppliers Boeing uses. The only relationship between Boeing and the Japanese suppliers are contractual. They pay fair market prices for the products they buy.

Another annoying thing eads did with the a400m program: yet another euro consortium, europrop (I'm not kidding!), was given a chance to re-bid when P&W's initial bid was lower than theirs! However, P&W was not offered to bid again, ONLY europrop was given the opportunity.

Also, the WTO, in 1999, found that Canada's financing with launch aid type terms were found to be a probited export subsidy, in a case brought on by brazil.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Somebody call the wambulance, Sheesh, Boeing gets just as much help as Airbus, if not more! I wish they'd stop bitchin for once in a while.

[billiam]

I wish they'd stop bitchin for once in a while.

I think that line belongs in the thread about 'bus's whining about the AI deal

[CaptainJackSparrow]

That's different, that's a specific localized legit complaint, this is just recycled trash talk they pull out every time something is going well for Airbus. Everyone is so over it, the a350 will go ahead, they can complain all they like, won't make a lick of difference.