1983 Aero Mexico Mid-air in Cerritos Ca.

[Crunk415balla]

Part One of the Aeromexico special. 2-4 are on the right hand side.

[Airbus_A320]

Thanks for posting, very interesting. Is this part of the nat geo series, I looked through my collection and don't seem to have that episode title.

Also, one thing that should be mentioned along with TCAS for airliners is the advent of GPS for GA pilots. Now no, you shouldn't rely soley on the GPS and know how to use the charts, but I'm sure it certainly does a bunch for situational awareness since you know exactly where you are in relation to airspace.

[alanh]

As I noted above, if you've missed it you can see it in the US on the NGC in the wee hours of 3/26. The YouTube version above appears to be the Canadian version, which airs on the Canadian Discovery Channel.

There's a full list of the Mayday/Air Emergency/Air Crash Investigation episodes here. The AeroMexico one is from season 4. I haven't seen any of the season 5 episodes in the US yet.

[Smilin_Ed]

After the accident, investigators determined that the AeroMexico pilots should have had the small plane in view for almost two minutes. It was a clear day with 14 miles visibility. So why didn't the pilots see the Piper?

No real surprise. In the mid 1980s I was a passenger in a commuter flight from ORF to DCA. In those days, the cockpit door was left open most of the time. After leveling off, the Captain began to read the Washington Post. I didn't want to challenge him in flight and be accused of interfering with the flight crew so I waited until we landed ad DCA and reported him to the FAA. Initially the FAA was skeptical saying things like, are you sure it wasn't an enroute chart or some such. When I explained that I was a U.S. Navy pilot and knew the difference, the FAA guy changed his tune and the Captain was reprimanded and retrained. Ubiquitous positive control has fostered a culture of invulnerability. No one seems to remember that when VMC, you must keep looking outside. Keeping your head in the cockpit can be fatal.

[3WE]

No real surprise. In the mid 1980s I was a passenger in a commuter flight from ORF to DCA. In those days, the cockpit door was left open most of the time. After leveling off, the Captain began to read the Washington Post. I didn't want to challenge him in flight and be accused of interfering with the flight crew so I waited until we landed ad DCA and reported him to the FAA. Initially the FAA was skeptical saying things like, are you sure it wasn't an enroute chart or some such. When I explained that I was a U.S. Navy pilot and knew the difference, the FAA guy changed his tune and the Captain was reprimanded and retrained. Ubiquitous positive control has fostered a culture of invulnerability. No one seems to remember that when VMC, you must keep looking outside. Keeping your head in the cockpit can be fatal.

Having sat in a DC-9 cockpit in a museum and considering the frighteningly-limited visitiblity that some airliners have, the potential rates of closure, all the mid-air collisions that have happened- even ones with very clear traffic reports like PSA.....

.....I'm all for having TCAS and transponders and conflict alerts from ATC.

Absolutely the pilots should be watching outside as you say, but I'm not sure we should depend on even the most vigilant visual scans.

Bring on the technology!

[JordanD]

Well... let's remember that the Aeromexico and PSA crashes happened before the invention of TCAS and the like.
I'll be honest, small aircraft are hard to spot, especially when they're below you and blend in very well with everything.

[Airbus_A320]

Well... let's remember that the Aeromexico and PSA crashes happened before the invention of TCAS and the like.
I'll be honest, small aircraft are hard to spot, especially when they're below you and blend in very well with everything.

Oh yeah, most certainly. Anyone saying it should be easy to see a small plane from miles away has obviously never actually tried looking for traffic in the air. The worst IMO is going into uncontrolled fields and someone says they are in the pattern but you can't see them anywhere

[avro_arrow_25206]

As I noted above, if you've missed it you can see it in the US on the NGC in the wee hours of 3/26. The YouTube version above appears to be the Canadian version, which airs on the Canadian Discovery Channel.

There's a full list of the Mayday/Air Emergency/Air Crash Investigation episodes here. The AeroMexico one is from season 4. I haven't seen any of the season 5 episodes in the US yet.

Season 5 production has been completed but haven't been released yet. That's why you haven't seen any of those episodes yet.

I watched this particular episode some time last year. In fact, I managed to download a good quality version of the entire Season 4.
I was surprised to learn that TCAS has only been implemented after this incident. I always thought it was standard for decades.

[FireLight]

This is true. Once, on a Delta flight into ORD I snapped a picture of the southside of the city as we were on downwind. It wasn't until I got the picture developed that I realised, there was a KLM 747 flying just below the horizon, also captured in the shot.

I had a similar experience flying down to San Diego. Looking out the window and taking pictures from time to time, and then I noticed a twinjet flying below us (likely to SFO), with contrails (a little hazy out) and I didn't notice him until he was nearly underneath us. Where'd he come from?

It's no wonder you can miss a small prop plane when you're looking down and trying to pick him out of the ground clutter - if you know he's there. Or trying to pick him up if you're trying to do other important things - like flying the plane say.

[JordanD]

Oh yeah, most certainly. Anyone saying it should be easy to see a small plane from miles away has obviously never actually tried looking for traffic in the air. The worst IMO is going into uncontrolled fields and someone says they are in the pattern but you can't see them anywhere

Or at an uncontrolled field when someone in a King Air is doing a checkride and they're not saying one word on the radio, and they're pretty much disregarding everyone else. Nothing like seeing King Air landing lights coming right towards you. :rolleyes:
I hate when I get a traffic alert and I still can't spot the other damn plane.

[Airbus_A320]

Or at an uncontrolled field when someone in a King Air is doing a checkride and they're not saying one word on the radio, and they're pretty much disregarding everyone else. Nothing like seeing King Air landing lights coming right towards you. :rolleyes:
I hate when I get a traffic alert and I still can't spot the other damn plane.

Well, all the times I've gone into uncontrolled fields people have called each time thankfully. Is it really hard to key the mike and say a few words...

As for the traffic alerts, do you mean from the tower, or do you have a TCAS type thing in the plane? As I think that I saw something like that for sale, but I don't remember exactly.

[JordanD]

Well, all the times I've gone into uncontrolled fields people have called each time thankfully. Is it really hard to key the mike and say a few words...

As for the traffic alerts, do you mean from the tower, or do you have a TCAS type thing in the plane? As I think that I saw something like that for sale, but I don't remember exactly.

From the tower. I think there's relatively cheap (ok, not cheap at all when you think about it) elementary TCAS devices available from places like Sportys.
The other day I had a helicopter in sight, I could see where it was and what direction it was going. Not 1 minute later the tower came on an advised me of it and I couldn't find it again!

[AA 1818]

If you all would like to read some eyewitness reports on the PSA accident, check out this link. Some of the stories or recounts are pretty brutal so beware. http://sandiegoblog.com/archives/200...sa-crash-1978/

These two made me cry:

Pam wrote on August 16, 2006
I was a PSA employee at the time of the crash. I was stationed on the ground at LAX. I had my $1.00 one way ticket for that flight to visit my best friend who lived in Imperial Beach. I went down there almost every week, since I could fly for $2.00 roundtrip! I went out with my future husband on our first date on the night before the flight. I was sick with bronchitis and decided at the last minute that I wasn’t up for the trip that week. I have been traumatized for life over this crash. I should have been on that plane. Many co-workers and even my boss Bob Benner and his wife were on the flight. Such a devastating loss. My life was forever changed that very day.
I think of how very lucky I was that day to be sick! I have a sever fear of flying to this day. I have flown recently, but it never gets any eaiser.

Amancio Elizaga III wrote on September 21, 2006
My dad Amancio Elizaga Jr. was a flight attendant on that flight 28 years ago. I did not know him, I was only 5 months old. I think of him often. I don’t think I’ve ever really gotten over his tragic death. He was so young with his whole life ahead of him, he left on this earth his wife, my mom (Aleta), my sister Amanda (not yet 2 years old at the time), and me and countless friends and relatives.

[scottkin]

The story where the person found the lady in the front yard that soiled her pants was god awful. Can you imagine the terror on board that plane that day?

[FireLight]

The personal stories help convey, as well as it can be conveyed, just a small amount of the tragedy and horror that those involved and their friends and families must have felt at the time. Many of the survivors and witnesses likely still retain those feelings to this day.