Air France plane missing?

[Carl E. Hackert]

Stories are now conflicting regarding whether or not the black boxes "pings" have been detected...

Along the same line, please take a look at these 2 differing images of the tail wreckage recovery at sea.

The second one seems to show an irregular chunk of the left lower corner of the rudder is missing while the first one shows it is clearly intact, a perfect right triangle of white paint. Could the difference just be an optical distortion by the waves? Or, is it telltale evidence of another "conspiracy"?

The first image is the one we often see and it can been seen at AirDisaster.com's home page. The separation from the fuselage is clean and the base of the vertical fin is even with the lower left corner of the rudder, a perfect right triangle of white paint partially obscured by the head of a diver.

http://airdisaster.com/

The second image (missing left rear corner or optical distortion?) accompanies the UK's Guardian story regarding the black boxes illusive ping. The diver is lifting the rudder out of the water and there seems to be ragged edge where the missing 6-8 chunk appears to be. The base of the vertical fin also becomes distorted or irregular at its attachment point.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/23/france-plane-crash-black-boxes

Has anyone seen the images of the vertical fin and rudder at the facility where the investigation is taking place? THANKS!

[wannabe_A&P_girl]

Wannabe, the French government made a realistic assessment of the situation, given the difficulties surrounding the location and retrieval of an aircraft in the middle of the ocean, and came out with a statement advising everyone involved that it may be very difficult to retrieve any wreckage and/or bodies and determine the cause for this disaster. I personally believe they did the right thing. The same goes for the funeral service - an AF aircraft had crashed (or had been lost at sea at that point in time, if you prefer), lives had been lost, and this was a first tribute to all involved. Let's not get too wound up in the whole consipracy/cover-up theory.

Don't get me wrong - I am also convinced that governments all the time and all over the world cover up various things to suit their own political agenda, but I honestly don't think that this is the case here. As a gentle reminder - Airbus is not French, it is part of a consortium involving many different European countries. Have they all conspired to cover up this accident? I don't think so.

I am in no way trying to bash the French. I posted before that they had to paint a realistic picture for the families. There was no need to give them false hope.
As I said, it was the manner in which they said things regarding the investigation that is suspicious. I know I am not crazy because other people have raised their eyebrows as well.
In hindsight, and I must admit that I haven't thought of this before, I am sure there were many different relgions and customs due to the diversity of ethnicities on board. I understand in many religions it is vital to bury the dead by sunset. In that case, I can understand a memorial service at an early time.

[Spectator]

...there is something else that I personally believe, and it has nothing to do with the way those guys and gals did their jobs.

Wannabe, please be a little more open with your suspicions, etc or else don't state them at all. Sort of like the "I can see something on the seat" post a while back in this thread, but leaving us all to guess what you mean. Say it or don't say it. Thanks.

[wannabe_A&P_girl]

Merchant Navy, Chief Engineer.
Per

Please don't leave us. I hope that you will reconsider.

[swissair]

Acars

I do not particularly subscribe to the bomb theory either, but I would say that detonating right in the middle of that severe storm is not such a great coincidence as you make out:

(1) If you were intending to destroy a plane, wouldn't that part of the Atlantic be a good place to hide any evidence? It certainly has proved to be in this case! The fact that the storm was there may just help to confuse the matter.

(2) On a much less likely scale, it may also be possible that the turbulence prematurely triggered the detonator.

Again, I haven't seen anything which indicates an explosive device, and so far the ACARS data doesn't seem to indicate it either, but let's not biased the wrong way.

Sorry excuse my arrogance, but since when the f does ACARS have a BOMB code? Again, think.. the thing detonates, rips open an important part, the fuselage crumbles at aft, all slow relatively speaking as the device weakened the structure, then the vstab snaps and the plane struggles for minutes with no chance and breaks up.....ACARS sending out all the shortcuts and comings of the event, logic...but surely ACARS does not transmit, BOMB aft, 50 grams of semtex..........etc sorry again, I do not mean to be personal here, just a bit surprised how this forum thinks ACARS messages are the key, what a joke.

[swissair]

Respect

Merchant Navy, Chief Engineer.
Per

My respect, Sir, Swiss Air Defence here. I always dreamt of taking the blue water seas, but sadly we have no seas but high mountains and tough terrain to fly through.

[Spectator]

The second one seems to show an irregular chunk of the left lower corner of the rudder is missing while the first one shows it is clearly intact, a perfect right triangle of white paint.

Look again carefully. Both pictures show the bottom trailing corner of the rudder damaged. Note that the pic you linked to on Airdisaster.com is substantially foreshortened (as discussed recently on this thread) making is look like the missing piece is a different shape. Nevertheless, is is present in both pics.

[wannabe_A&P_girl]

Wannabe, please be a little more open with your suspicions, etc or else don't state them at all. Sort of like the "I can see something on the seat" post a while back in this thread, but leaving us all to guess what you mean. Say it or don't say it. Thanks.

I appreciate your constructive criticism, but I did not wish to threadjack with a TWA800 conspiracy discussion. I just didn't feel it was appropriate for me to discuss my thoughts in detail on this thread. That is for another time.

As for the seat thing, I thought it might have been blood. It sure looked like dried blood to me, but whatever. I just didn't want to come out and say "ZOMG! Look at the blood and gore!!" I didn't want to offend anyone and if I was wrong, then I didn't disseminate bad info.

Please don't be so harsh. I am trying to maintain good posting etiqutte.

[Spectator]

Sorry excuse my arrogance, but since when the f does ACARS have a BOMB code? Again, think.. the thing detonates, rips open an important part, the fuselage crumbles at aft, all slow relatively speaking as the device weakened the structure, then the vstab snaps and the plane struggles for minutes with no chance and breaks up.....ACARS sending out all the shortcuts and comings of the event, logic...but surely ACARS does not transmit, BOMB aft, 50 grams of semtex..........etc sorry again, I do not mean to be personal here, just a bit surprised how this forum thinks ACARS messages are the key, what a joke.

No offense taken, although you seem to be quite protective of the bomb theory

All I was trying to say was that the ACARS transmissions didn't seem (note my emphasis this time) to indicate an explosion, not of the type most people imagine anyway.

[swissair]

Acars

No offense taken, although you seem to be quite protective of the bomb theory

All I was trying to say was that the ACARS transmissions didn't seem (note my emphasis this time) to indicate an explosion, not of the type most people imagine anyway.

ACARS, again, can not "know" the difference between say malfunctions of systems, sudden pressure change and the ever so crucial bomb..........that is my ever so simple logic. ACARS is "dumb" so to speak, driven by aircraft mounted sensors for the mainstream events and sphere. Agree? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACARS

[wannabe_A&P_girl]

I am a little behind on this, but I just now saw this and am really sitting here stunned that someone would use stills from Lost in this situation. I guess they don't have Lost in Bolivia, but who would be standing up taking pictures of the back of the plane getting ripped off without getting sucked out?

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25679077-954,00.html

[Spectator]

Please don't be so harsh. I am trying to maintain good posting etiqutte.

Sorry for coming across as harsh. Terse may be a better description. I'm not inclined to type long winded posts in an effort not to offend anyone. Apologies for upsetting you.

[wannabe_A&P_girl]

I was so hopeful

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LN677110.htm

* Plane's flight recorders still missing-investigators

* Remote location, ocean floor complicate search

PARIS, June 23 (Reuters) - Investigators have not yet found flight recorders of an Air France airliner that crashed this month, France's air accident authority said on Tuesday after a report that signals from the recorders had been picked up.
The website of France's Le Monde daily reported that signals had been detected and a mini submarine had been launched to try to locate the "black box" recorders that could contain vital clues to explain the June 1 crash, in which 228 people died.
But the BEA, the French air accident authority, said searchers had not heard any signals they could be sure came from the black boxes.
"No signals transmitted by the flight recorders' locator beacons have been validated up to now," it said in a statement.
"In the context of the sea searches that are under way, work is undertaken on a regular basis that is aimed at eliminating any doubts related to any sounds that may be heard, and any findings will be made public," it said.
Everyone aboard died when the Air France Airbus 330 crashed into the Atlantic en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris on June 1.
A BEA spokeswoman noted that many sounds are detected on the seabed and said investigators had picked up numerous signals that had turned out to be false leads.
Locator beacons, known as "pingers", on the flight recorders send an electronic impulse every second for at least 30 days. The signal can be heard up to 2 km (1.2 miles) away.
French vessels involved in the search operation include a nuclear submarine with advanced sonar equipment and a research ship equipped with mini submarines.
The remote location in the Atlantic as well as the depth and surface of the ocean floor have made the search especially difficult and the wreckage could lie anywhere between 1 km (0.6 miles) and 4 km (2.5 miles) down. (Reporting by James Mackenzie, Editing by Janet Lawrence)

[swissair]

Fake LOST footage a macabre idiot did this

I am a little behind on this, but I just now saw this and am really sitting here stunned. I guess they don't have Lost in Bolivia, but who would be standing up taking pictures of the back of the plane getting ripped off without getting sucked out?

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...77-954,00.html

All fake !

[wannabe_A&P_girl]

Sorry for coming across as harsh. Terse may be a better description. I'm not inclined to type long winded posts in an effort not to offend anyone. Apologies for upsetting you.

I do accept your apology and no hurt feelings, and your point was well taken and will be applied.