Air France plane missing?

[P3_Super_Bee]

The MD-11 had a reduced horizontal tail compared to the "parent" DC-10, with a fin tank for trim and a longitudinal stability augmentation system for added stability

To bad ITS is banned he'd know all about this...

[burke3265]

New/old Photos?

I dont think I saw any discussion re: the June 23rd photos that were released..if i missed, can someone tell me what page they were they were on?

Under the Fotos tab.

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/

[TeeVee]

To believe such a scenario, you must employ a paranoid mindset that works in spite of this logic.

i'm not going to belabor this point, but there are a whole bunch of people that think those that believe that the nazis killed six million jews are paranoid and delusional as well.

all i was saying is that i am not so sure that there is not a cover-up.

why would airbus not want to know? maybe they already know. Who's to day that ACARS didn't transmit a bunch more than they are letting on? does anyone but air france have access to ACARS messages until AF let's them know about it? and we all know that digital info can be manipulated, so unless someone else received the ACARS messages independent of AF, there is no way to knwo for sure.

now you may not believe this, but i am not a conspiracy theorist. i generally think they are a bit whacko myself. but with the experiences that i have had flying i'm pretty certain that the industry covers stuff up. manufacturers and airlines. and seriously, with all the crap we have found out about the FAA, do you trust them? why trust the BEA then?

i'm just sayin....

[EconomyClass]

Am I reading it wrong that pitot tube malfunction is inferred indirectly? There is nothing to sense directly that pitot tubes are impaired? From all I've read, the A330 autopilot shuts down to indicate airspeed inconsistency. Well, in another incident, a technician had left tape over pitot tubes. I think that plane should have stayed on the ground with a malfunction alarm till the tape was found. So why did the plane get into the air? Because you needed to be flying for the problem to register?

[swissair]

Single speed brake panel floating isolated?

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/FOTOS/130609/img_3.JPG

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/FOTOS/130609/img_5.JPG

On the site you see this panel, correct if wrong, but it looks like one of the spoiler panels of the AB330(?) Then, it is floating here isolated. Does anyone know if this single panel has been found far away or relatively close to other debris such as the Galley? SR

[Window-Seat]

Am I reading it wrong that pitot tube malfunction is inferred indirectly? There is nothing to sense directly that pitot tubes are impaired? From all I've read, the A330 autopilot shuts down to indicate airspeed inconsistency. Well, in another incident, a technician had left tape over pitot tubes. I think that plane should have stayed on the ground with a malfunction alarm till the tape was found. So why did the plane get into the air? Because you needed to be flying for the problem to register?

If the pitots were operating satisfactorily, something caused the a/c to slow. I was looking at JetPhotos last night of an a/330 whose landing gear doors would not open fully, and I got to thinking what would happen if those doors came partly or fully open in flight.

[Spad13]

Come on Spad!

You've said "You're close, but it's not quite that absolute. See 14 CFR Part 23.1323 and 25.1323" and then you hit me for quoting 14 CFR Part 23.1323 and 25.1323?

However, I wonder if an equipment that is requiered for the airplane's airwothiness type certification goes inop that would not render the airplane not airworthy (honest question).

I'm hitting you for it because you're misapplying the reg. You're confusing what's required for certification with what's required for operation. 14 CFR Parts 23 and 25 deal with the former, Part 91 deals with the latter. And Part 91, specifically 91.205 deals with your second point of whether the airplane would be rendered unairworthy by an inoperative pitot heat system. As you can see, 91.205 has no mention of pitot heat at all, thus the answer is no.

[swissair]

Gear bay doors - in flight opening - air flow to strong

If the pitots were operating satifactorally, something caused the a/c to slow. I was looking at JetPhotos last night of an a/330 whose landing gear doors would not open fully, and I got to thinking what would happen if those doors came partly or fully open in flight.

Gear Bay doors, monsters like the ones on the heavy ab330 can not open unless forced open. But certainly can not forced open at mach 0.80/83. I think.

[Window-Seat]

Gear Bay doors, monsters like the ones on the heavy ab330 can not open unless forced open. But certainly can not forced open at mach 0.80/83. I think.

Yeah, I see your point. Could they have been bouncing around enough to where something might have gotten extended?

[swissair]

are speed brake spoilers though can extend though

Yeah, I see your point. Could they have been bouncing around enough to where something might have gotten extended?

Hence, the floating one singular in my previous post, same spotlight questioning like you....similar thinking.

[swissair]

Things dont fall loose through "bouncing"

Yeah, I see your point. Could they have been bouncing around enough to where something might have gotten extended?

Elements can only break if passing their stress levels or elements, like slats, flaps or spoilers can extend, sometimes they did un-commanded, but they extend with hydraulic force and actuators. The speed brake has as you can imagine rather strong hydraulic power and actuators as they have to deal with a brake function of the sometimes high airflow. But, as said, I wonder, why did this singular speed brake panel float alone? it is designed to withstand extreme force and as you can see in the pic, the entire fixture struts beneath it, its frme has been broken off like a match.....now, if the a/c as presumed not evidenced came down flat on its belly level wings I doubt that the spoiler flap would brake off on top of the wing...I tend to believe that this speedbrake came of at high speed but we do not know why it came off up there, question to all: Can the spoilers be deployed at mach 0.80 thereabaouts on the AB330? or did they deploy at first commanded by the crew in an emergency decent or trying to control a steep decent and then they overspeed and all fell apart?

[Highkeas]

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/...0609/img_3.JPG

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/FOTOS/130609/img_5.JPG

On the site you see this panel, correct if wrong, but it looks like one of the spoiler panels of the AB330(?) Then, it is floating here isolated. Does anyone know if this single panel has been found far away or relatively close to other debris such as the Galley? SR

There is a debris and body map on page 34 of the BEA interim report. However it does not identify debris except for the vertical stabiliser. It looks like the debris covers an area roughly 200 km x 200 km.

[swissair]

Thanks but can anyone confirm please the spoiler flap?

There is a debris and body map on page 34 of the BEA interim report. However it does not identify debris except for the vertical stabiliser. It looks like the debris covers an area roughly 200 km x 200 km.

Is this the AB 330 series, one of, the spoiler flaps, speed brake panels?

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/FOTOS/130609/img_5.JPG

http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/voo447/FOTOS/130609/img_4.JPG

Thanks.

[EconomyClass]

Stats

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Table6.htm

According to this table, there were two perfect years in a row in which no one died on a scheduled flight despite over 7 billion miles flown. Now, we're in a global recession, most airlines are cutting back service and we have these spectacular crashes. Is it just some secular trends coming due? A natural upswing from an unrealistic level? Naturally governments are scrambling to prevent the travel industry from getting destroyed, but two perfect years would seem to indicate a pretty high level of performance.

[swissair]

crashes are within the rules of chaos theory - not economic cycles

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Table6.htm

According to this table, there were two perfect years in a row in which no one died on a scheduled flight despite over 7 billion miles flown. Now, we're in a global recession, most airlines are cutting back service and we have these spectacular crashes. Is it just some secular trends coming due? A natural upswing from an unrealistic level? Naturally governments are scrambling to prevent the travel industry from getting destroyed, but two perfect years would seem to indicate a pretty high level of performance.

Crashes happen without invitation letters, unfortunately and airlines that put safety second will or better must go out of business...