Landing Accidents

[TX911]

Is there ONE mature person who posts here?

My grandma says I'm mature. Does that count?

[TX911]

Somewhere I read even big planes can coast into an airport. Not true? Of course, if the weather is less than ideal, you wouldn't want a glider pilot. And with the ferocious level of commercial air traffic today, the law of averages assures many will land in suboptimal weather. Which might mean a traveler should be concerned about what weather his plane will have for the landing. Was that a factor in the Colgan crash?

I'm no pilot but I believe the rule of thumb is to take the first 2 number of your altitude and multiply by 3 to get a ballpark estimate of how far you can coast with no engines. So if you're at 30,000 ft you could glide an estimated 90 miles before hitting the ground. Again, that may be completely off, but it seems I remember hearing that somewhere. Also, I believe that engines are pretty much at idle when coming in to land, because you simply don't need the engine power.

I believe the Colgan air fiasco had more to do with overworked pilots who were probably exhausted and not thinking as clearly and sharply as they could've been. Isn't Colgan a regional carrier? From what i understand, Regional pilots get treated like shit and are forced to work hellacious hours to make ends meet. Anybody who actually has some real knowledge or hard facts on any of the above, please feel free to rip this post apart.

On a side note, if you're really that concerned, you should check out SOAR's fear of flying program. I did the program and I feel a million times better about being in the air. I backed out of a trip not to long ago, did the program and then flew from DFW to MBJ on June 28th with AA. I had a lot of fun to be honest and even got some great pics out the window believ it or not. The cool thing about the SOAR program is that you can actually call Tom Bunn anytime and talk to him and he's happy to answer your questions. I called him from the damn terminal at the airport because I was having second thoughts and he was happy to speak to me. Check it out, for real. The fact is that fear of flying is not a technical issue, its a psychological issue. The technical aspects of flying and the stats prove flying is incredibly safe. Deal with the psychological aspects of yourself, don't focus on the planes or the pilots because the planes and pilots are just fine. It took doing a program for me to realize that. Some people may laugh at me for paying for a fear of flying program and I'd say, fuck them. It worked for me and i'm back in the air with little to no anxiety at all. That's what it took for me and I'm comfortable with that.

[Curtis Malone]

And I thought I was a fearful flyer. Shit dude, have a couple of scotches and chill out.

I seem to recall you were the one who ran in panic at the sight of an AA 738, shortly thereafter accusing me of liking Academy Award(R) winner Kevin Spacey's work a tad too much.

Or something to that effect.

[TX911]

Hi Curtis! I see reading and comprehension are still obstacles for you. I'm sorry to see that. Perhaps you could eat a good meal and gather the brain power necessary to read the rest of that post? And yes, from what I remember, you had a couple of freudian slips involving mastubatory fantasization about flying anxiety weaved into your rambling, blithering, non-sequitor web of bullshit last time. I see things aren't exactly looking up in the academia department yet? Keep trying little guy, one day you'll be able to string together more than two comprehensible sentences that don't involve you jerking off in your mom's basement. Oh and I got some wonderful pics from 35000ft on my way to beautiful Montego Bay. I'm sure we'll get some more on our way to Providenciales in December as well! I'd be happy to show them to you if you'd like to see! Just, no mastubatory fantasization ok bucko? Its not that kind of party.

[brianw999]

Maybe these facts will put your mind at rest....

I have been a paramedic for 30 years. I have always worked within callout range of at least two major international airports.

I have never been to an aviation incident, never mind one involving fatalities and neither have any of my colleagues.

I have, however lost count of the number of fatal road accidents that I have attended. Most of my colleagues have similarly lost count.

Conclusion ? You don't need a red cape and red pants worn outside your trousers to figure out which form of transport is most likely to kill you !!!

[TX911]

I have never been to an aviation incident, never mind one involving fatalities and neither have any of my colleagues.

I have, however lost count of the number of fatal road accidents that I have attended. Most of my colleagues have similarly lost count.

Responded to one aviation accident that happened on the ground. One light plane clipped another while moving out of a garage and a guy got a pretty good lac on his face. Other than that, I can;t tell you how many MVC's I've responded to just this summer, let alone my entire career. Spot on post

[3WE]

Sure- landing is more dangerous.

If during takeoff, you briefly ascend too fast, there's nothing to hit. If you briefly descend too fast, the concrete is moderately hard.

During severe IMC you begin ON the runway and aim AWAY from it- so what if you lose sight at liftoff?

During severe storms- you are going down a 3-degree glideslope and slowing the plane- you are low for a good long while. Departing- you typically climb like a bat out of hell.

During landing, the gas tanks almost always more empty than when you took off.

You must aim for a small patch of concrete- versus most other flight modes where you just have to dodge other airplanes.

In a crosswind- you can depart by holding the plane on the ground and then jerking it off with somewhat less influence from the wind. Landing- you are much more at the mercy of the wind and must make the plane alight nicely with a very fixed slab of concrete.

There's more, but hopefully this illustrates that landing has some unique risks (albeit pretty darn small ones!).

[bob12312357]

Sure- landing is more dangerous.

If during takeoff, you briefly ascend too fast, there's nothing to hit. If you briefly descend too fast, the concrete is moderately hard.

During severe IMC you begin ON the runway and aim AWAY from it- so what if you lose sight at liftoff?

During severe storms- you are going down a 3-degree glideslope and slowing the plane- you are low for a good long while. Departing- you typically climb like a bat out of hell.

During landing, the gas tanks almost always more empty than when you took off.

You must aim for a small patch of concrete- versus most other flight modes where you just have to dodge other airplanes.

In a crosswind- you can depart by holding the plane on the ground and then jerking it off with somewhat less influence from the wind. Landing- you are much more at the mercy of the wind and must make the plane alight nicely with a very fixed slab of concrete.

There's more, but hopefully this illustrates that landing has some unique risks (albeit pretty darn small ones!).

The less filled the gas tank the bigger the boom and there is a greater chance of one at that with empty tanks. Would I waste my time being nervous during landing knowing full well I probably won't know what is going on until its 2 late and a tensed up person with a high heart rate will die before a calmer person. Theres no point. I really don't understand the Op's question of when I should be more nervous, from a medical standpoint he is putting himself at a much biggerrisk of shock,bleeding out,snapped neck, etc then one who is relaxed. So actaully he would be endangering himself being tensed up and white knuckled...

[Deadstick]

I love landings in bumps and max crosswind component and I also love perfectly stable greasers. I've walked away from every landing I've ever been a participant in.

[3WE]

...Theres no point. I really don't understand the Op's question...

You don't have to feel the same way or even agree, but if you don't understand the OP, then your comprehensive abilities are weak.

[SYDCBRWOD]

As they say... Take offs are optional, landings are mandatory...

[Deadstick]

As they say... Take offs are optional, landings are mandatory...

Ain't nobody been left up there yet.

[Spectator]

Landing

On landing a plane is in a very low energy state (in some ways you could liken it to riding a bicycle - the slower you go the more difficult it is to remain upright) - it is essentially transitioning from flying to 'driving'.

And even then a good pilot will know how to handle a poor situation. Not saying it is not a tricky period of the flight, but there are way of mitigating it. I remember an hour-and-a-half flight were we were told a good 20 minutes before landing that it was very windy at our destination. We settled into final approach, all nice an smooth, and then virtually on the deck we heard the engines spooling up. We basically flew into the runway - deliberately - and then hard deceleration again. The procedure served its purpose - a surprisingly stable landing considering you could feel the buffeting of the gusting wind inside plane (a 737 or A319, I don't remember).

[T.O.G.A.]

As they say... Take offs are optional, landings are mandatory...

They also say that: "Landings are nothing but controlled crashes into terrain".

[SYDCBRWOD]

They also say that: "Landings are nothing but controlled crashes into terrain".

...and that any good landing is one you can walk away from. A perfect landing is one where they can use the plane again.