AZA ATR 72 overshoots runway at FCO

[seahawk]

Well - why not? I doubt that the paint has anything to do with the accident

Because you allow lots of workers of the airline to the plane. If you do not monitor them closely they could do more than just paint the plane - at least in theory.

[Jester]

I believe the registration of the plane is YR-ATS, not YR-ATR

The repaint, from what i could see on tv, seems to be only tape, not sprayed.
To me it seems that they covered the whole fuselage including windows with white tape.

Media says that in the area there was winds at 25kts gusting 41kts and an ATR retired pilot stated that are near the safety limits for a plane like that.
I'm not an ATR expert so i only report what i've heard.

[Peter Kesternich]

Because you allow lots of workers of the airline to the plane. If you do not monitor them closely they could do more than just paint the plane - at least in theory.

I would think that before you allow anyone not involved with the investigation to the accident sight (and possible "crime scene") that all the relevant pictures and data would have been gathered, as well as FDR and CVR recovered.

I took another look at the picture posted by aceriana. It does look more like tape than paint.

[brianw999]

As long as an Italian does not get any blame attached to them, that's all Alitalia will care about. Typical Italian mind set.
A bit like when Ayrton Senna was killed at Imola in the 1994 Italian Grand Prix. The Italians were quick to lay manslaughter charges against the Willims F1 team and Frank Willims specifically yet conveniently glossed over the possibility of debris on the track causing the accident.

[Black Ram]

As long as an Italian does not get any blame attached to them, that's all Alitalia will care about. Typical Italian mind set.
A bit like when Ayrton Senna was killed at Imola in the 1994 Italian Grand Prix. The Italians were quick to lay manslaughter charges against the Willims F1 team and Frank Willims specifically yet conveniently glossed over the possibility of debris on the track causing the accident.

Oh come on. A steering column was welded under Frank Williams's and Patrick Head's supervision. It was very clear it was not debris that caused the accident. There were also plenty of impartial observers (Michelle Alboreto, Ron Dennis, Gerhard Berger) who stated only a broken car could result in the crash happening the way it did.
If the crash was caused by a bad modification, then that's negligence. Put all of Williams's spin into the picture and you get perjury.
Either way, the Imola track is "fixed" today, and the cars are now safer. But you can ask the non-Italian Max Mosley why that happened after TWO deaths in 1994, one near-death in 1995 (Hakkinen), and why he decided to take the awesome and powerful cars of 1993 and deprive them of the safety features, electronics, and crucial active suspension for the 1994 team. That really made some teams struggle and could have contributed to some of the accidents. (both Simtek and Williams 1994 cars were basically designed for active suspension and it is no secret Williams were struggling with their setup and constantly making changes, until they redesigned it and got the FW-16B) and It also made the cars inherently unsafe. Yet, this is the guy getting credit for making F1 safe today. I say it is Senna and Ratzenberger, who paid for it with their blood.
Anyway, off-topic.

[Leftseat86]

I am not sure whether there are any "standard" procedures for repainting an accident aircraft, but all airlines do it if the airline is still recognizable on the wreckage and if they have the possibility and the means.




Well - why not? I doubt that the paint has anything to do with the accident

Really? It doesn't occur to you that an accident site and aircraft should remain essentially untouched and quarantined a mere hours after it has occurred?

I am also very surprised they were allowed to paint the entire plane white like that.

[James Bond]

I believe the registration of the plane is YR-ATS, not YR-ATR

Thanks for that, I've changed the link.

[Jester]

Thanks for that, I've changed the link.

You're welcome!

Today news says that investigators has acquired some elements over the accident.
It seems that Carpatair, the vector operating the plane leased by Alitalia, has all the safety certifications valid (i hope that's normal for a company operating in europe) and the plane was working.
Pilot has 9k hours on the machine and was an instructor on ATR.
The investigations are still ongoing but the wind and windshear seems to be the cause. Plus, seems that in the metar there was no mention of shear risk.
The covering of the Alitalia livery was authorized before the seizure of the wreck.

That's what i find by now.

[aceriana]

Typical Italian mind set.

Easy now Brian - lets not blame a whole nation because of the errors of a few.

We all know corruption is a problem in Italy - thanks to the government. But your average Joe here is not to blame - au contraire - he suffers to bring home his daily loaf of bread like any mate in the UK.

Cheers

[Black Ram]

Easy now Brian - lets not blame a whole nation because of the errors of a few.

We all know corruption is a problem in Italy - thanks to the government. But your average Joe here is not to blame - au contraire - he suffers to bring home his daily loaf of bread like any mate in the UK.

Cheers

Italy could be more corrupt, but that doesn't mean an investigation in Italy is destined to be derailed. I see exactly the opposite - Italian investigators and prosecutors usually do a very good job. In the 2001 Linate Airport collision investigators pointed out many issues with the airport itself and didn't lay all the blame on the Cessna, which was where it shouldn't have been. In result Italians went to jail.
To me neither the repainting of this ATR, nor the Imola investigation shows any signs of corruption or an attempt to escape responsibility.
Then, the UK (apparently whose mindset is "we are always better than the rest" ) may have its own issues. It is different when it comes to corruption, because as some say, corruption circles in the UK operate in "intangible ways" and corrupt activities are sometimes not clearly against the law, while still unethical.
And lastly, why do people attribute so much to nationality? What if the paint really has nothing to do with the ATR crash (given there was permission to cover the livery). And what if the Williams team really made a negligent error with their modification and later started a PR campaign to cover up and produce nonsensical spin?
Mr. Brian gets upset the Italians covered the paint on the ATR. But it is ok when Charlie Whiting handed the black boxes from Senna's car straight to Williams, before FIA could even start examining them, AGAINST FIA regulations. Those boxes later could not be read when returned, and the italian marshall who recovered them testified in court they didn't look like that when he recovered them (like smashed with a hammer). But that's ok because he is Italian and was probably high on espresso. No way Frankie and Patrick could do such a thing.

[Peter Kesternich]

I would think that before you allow anyone not involved with the investigation to the accident sight (and possible "crime scene") that all the relevant pictures and data would have been gathered, as well as FDR and CVR recovered.

I took another look at the picture posted by aceriana. It does look more like tape than paint.

Really? It doesn't occur to you that an accident site and aircraft should remain essentially untouched and quarantined a mere hours after it has occurred?

I am also very surprised they were allowed to paint the entire plane white like that.

Please read my previous post above

[Vnav]

Plus, seems that in the metar there was no mention of shear risk.

LIRF 021920Z 25028G41KT 9999 SCT023 SCT040 11/04 Q0992 WS RWY 16L NOSIG
LIRF 021850Z 24024KT 9999 FEW023 SCT040 11/04 Q0992 WS RWY 16L NOSIG
LIRF 021820Z 24030KT 9999 FEW023 SCT040 11/04 Q0991 WS RWY 16L NOSIG

These are the relevant METARs. The accident occured at 1932Z. Guess what the "WS RWY 16" means?. Besides, no pilot worth his salt needs to be told there's a possibility of shear with those kind of winds.

[brianw999]

Easy now Brian - lets not blame a whole nation because of the errors of a few.

We all know corruption is a problem in Italy - thanks to the government. But your average Joe here is not to blame - au contraire - he suffers to bring home his daily loaf of bread like any mate in the UK.

Cheers

I in no way paint the Italian people in that light. I don't know of a more welcoming, friendly people in Europe. I refer to the Italian legal system historically seeming to be hell bent on diverting blame from Italy at any cost.

[Black Ram]

I in no way paint the Italian people in that light. I don't know of a more welcoming, friendly people in Europe. I refer to the Italian legal system historically seeming to be hell bent on diverting blame from Italy at any cost.

And your supportive arguments are the repainting of this ATR and laying the blame on Frank Williams and Patrick Head for Senna's death?
I still don't see why generalize like that in the first place, and then why you accuse the Italian legal system. I still haven't heard anyone from Alitalia blaming to Romanians for the ATR accident. And I suppose you don't know anything about the rich traditions of the Italian judicial system and you probably never heard of Giovanni Falcone or Paolo Borsellino.

[Jester]

These are the relevant METARs. The accident occured at 1932Z. Guess what the "WS RWY 16" means?. Besides, no pilot worth his salt needs to be told there's a possibility of shear with those kind of winds.

As i said, "seems" ... at that time i had no data at hand ... now, with your post, i know that the shear was indicated and what the media says about a lack of informations is not true.
But we are used to media bu*****ts...

Anyway, as you said, any pilot would know that was a risky situation.
Thanks