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FAO: TeeVee

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  • #1

    FAO: TeeVee

    How ridiculous, unreasonable and abusive may contracts become before they are deemed not enforceable or illegal?

    Imagine a fictional world where there are only 3 restaurant chains, let's call them, I don't know, American, United and Delta.
    Furthermore, some cities are almost exclusively served by only one of these restaurants.

    So I use the app of one of these restaurant to self-order take-out food.
    I want a chicken sandwich with fries. But I see that they have a combo, chicken sandwich with fries and soda, that costs less than if I order just the sandwich and the fries separately. SO I order that.
    I go to pick up the food and on my way out they see me dropping the whole soda in the trash.
    So they stop me and inform me that, since I didn't drink the soda, they charged me for the actual product I consumed (the more expensive sandwich and fries separately, not the cheaper combo) and, because I did that intentionally in violation of of the clause 341.14.j) in the page 27 of their terms and conditions, they are banning me for 1 year from the whole chain. (And, bu the way, the other 2 restaurant chains have a similar clause).

    How is that not illegal? How is no authority stopping the abuse? (other than lobby and corruption)

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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  • #2
    Gabriel:

    Nothing new here, and your example has a couple of tiny exceptions.

    Your best bet would be to launch your own airline.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

    Comment

    • #3
      Ehhhmmm... Thank you for your contribution, I guess?

      What is kind of new, I think, is that the airlines are now training instructing their check-in and gate agents to detect these cases and taking actions on-the-spot. And they are doing it en-masse.
      Before, the investigation was done afterwards and from the few times that an airline took a customer to court for this matter, the airline systematically lost.

      The action seems to be typically this: They cancel your trip from A to C with a stop / plane change in B (which is your real intended destination) and make you rebook (if you want) a new trip from A to B. Don't worry, you will ave room in this flight (after all you already had a seat for it). Not only you have to pay more for it because the flight from A to B was more expensive than the flight from A to C with a stop in B (even when the A-B leg is the exact same flight in both cases), but now you are buying it at the last minute and paying last-minute fares (not the lower fares you paid when you bought the ticket 3 weeks ago). You don't want to do that? No problem, we will still cancel your trip (because we want and we can), good luck getting to your destination, and oh by the way you are banned from flying with us for 1 year.

      In my view, it is not a matter of "ok smartass, if you don;' like it why don't you start your own airline"? It is not a "like" thing. It is whether it is legal at all.
      I am waiting for the time they do that to rich lawyer who has the time and the will to take this to the last consequences in court. I am pretty sure that it would not end well for the airline (as it did not in previous cases), and that somehow this gets to higher levels where not only the individual issue is resolve favorably for the customer, but a more general precedent can be set that would force the airlines stop doing this stupid abusive thing.

      Either that or, I put Evans hat on, pass a law that makes this spec practice illegal.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
        Before, the investigation was done afterwards [and now] you are banned from flying with us for 1 year.
        30+ years ago, Northwest had a badass hub at KMEM.

        The fare from Houston to Memphis was much more than from Houston to Memphis to Minneapolis. People often booked the Minneapolis itinerary when going to Memphis.

        It was still the 20th century when they began checking on what you actually did and cancel flights.

        Delta tried to do that with me after a 24 hour delay where I rented a car from ATL to BHM.

        There’s a 70 page thread called the United Debarcle with a giant number of incidents that seem pretty unconscionable, for organizations that SUPPOSEDLY LOVE to serve their customers and make them happy.

        So many of these fly in the face of logic, and the greater right or wrong, but the government is cautious. “The lavs are over flowing and a passenger is having a heart attack…”. “Rodger…”

        Since you didn’t like my first suggestion, maybe go get a law degree and raise hell and file lawsuits…that is probably more fun than running an airline, because you wouldn’t have time to use your pilots license as an airline CEO.

        As I said: 1990 at Memphis. (With DC-9s and 727s and DC-10s and Saab turboprops ). Nothing really new.
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

        Comment

        • #5
          By the way: Back in 1990 you could go standby, cancel tickets, modify itineraries, only first class cost more, seat pitch was a tiny bit more, you got in flight meals and you didn’t have to hear a credit card pitch.
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
            30+ years ago, Northwest had a badass hub at KMEM.

            The fare from Houston to Memphis was much more than from Houston to Memphis to Minneapolis. People often booked the Minneapolis itinerary when going to Memphis.

            It was still the 20th century when they began checking on what you actually did and cancel flights.
            How did they do that? Again, my understanding is that they would take some cases and sue them afterwards (and loss the lawsuit).
            I've never had an agent ask me where I really intend to deplane or why the address in my driver license matches the stop instead of the final destination. Like they are doing now.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

            Comment

            • #7
              And in any event, making it old doesn't make it good. Lead in the gasoline or CFCs were never good even when we used them for many decades.

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

              Comment

              • #8
                “Cable TV” (numerous systems, actually) are another horrendous departure from Uber-basic customer service, and tickets to events…holy lying screwing cash grab!
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                Comment

                • #9
                  We need more government oversight. Just like how the FAA oversees aircraft development.
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Throw in the crap in flight service that seems to be the norm and now you know why I don’t use any US based airlines.
                    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                      Ehhhmmm... Thank you for your contribution, I guess?
                      Unfortunately, it appears that neither Brian nor I wish to sign on to your particular cause.

                      He’s hung up on cabin service and I’m more bothered by extreme change penalties versus minimal penalties for them to change/cancel/delay.

                      I applaud Brian’s efforts to vote with his wallet, but of course, the choice in reality, is very limited.

                      Good luck.
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Ban ALL American airlines (including American Airlines).
                        "I know that at times I can be a little over the top." -ITS
                        • Likes 1

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Go Pluna!
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
                          • Likes 1

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            PLUNA: Primeras Líneas Uruguayas de Navegación Aérea

                            But for not-karl and me it would be more like:
                            LAPA: Líneas Aéreas Privadas Argentinas

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
                            • Likes 1

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              My recollection of Not_Dad’s fotografias de jetes included a lot of PLUNA aeroplanies at Aeroparque de Bona Nitogena y otra gaso.
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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