SunCountry Transatlantic 737 service?

[Evan]

Yeah, I don't get it. SunCountry is advertising the MSP-STN trip as if it is a great deal starting at $399 each way. That doesn't include $20 for the first checked bag on a transatlantic flight, or tax, so the cheapest I could find with one checked bag is $976 minimum round trip. Ok, for that you get stuffed in a single-aisle cabin and enjoy the hassle of a 10.5 hour overnight flight with a guaranteed technical stopover. No good if you plan to get some sleep. And you end up at Stanstead and have to arrange transport to LHR for most connections.

Meanwhile, Delta is flying MSP-LHR non-stop on a spacious 767-400 for $831 tax included, and the first checked bag is free. And that's an 8.25 hour flight.

It's kind of a no-brainer.

I wonder if the economics simply can't compete on this route with a low payload aircraft. Maybe this is some kind of loss-leader strategy, but I can't see how it could work. Maybe the biz class is a better deal...

[HalcyonDays]

Yeah, I don't get it. SunCountry is advertising the MSP-STN trip as if it is a great deal starting at $399 each way. That doesn't include $20 for the first checked bag on a transatlantic flight, or tax, so the cheapest I could find with one checked bag is $976 minimum round trip. Ok, for that you get stuffed in a single-aisle cabin and enjoy the hassle of a 10.5 hour overnight flight with a guaranteed technical stopover. No good if you plan to get some sleep. And you end up at Stanstead and have to arrange transport to LHR for most connections.

Meanwhile, Delta is flying MSP-LHR non-stop on a spacious 767-400 for $831 tax included, and the first checked bag is free. And that's an 8.25 hour flight.

It's kind of a no-brainer.

I wonder if the economics simply can't compete on this route with a low payload aircraft. Maybe this is some kind of loss-leader strategy, but I can't see how it could work. Maybe the biz class is a better deal...

I doubt very much if customers on this service will be wanting to travel on to connections at Heathrow. My guess is that most of them are what we used to call VFR traffic - that's not Visual Flight Rules, but the other VFR, ie. Visiting Friends and Relatives. There is a definite seasonal summer market between Minneapolis and the UK. That's not to say this service will work economically, as I hinted in a post above, given Sun Country's record, but it certainly does work conceptually.

Also, surely it's incorrect to call the 737 a low-payload aircraft. My guess is that the flights will be pretty full - so you would have a fairly full payload. A full payload on a 737 is a different quantity from a full payload on a 777 after all. That's not to say the yield on the service will be good, but that's different from payload/load factor. There's nothing spacious about a 767-400 when it has a 90-100% load factor, I can assure you.

[rinoltz]

KLM uses a 737-700 between EHAM and KIAD. The flights I have seen are KLM663 and KLM664. I see on FlightAware that they use either the B737/W or B737/Q.

[Evan]

KLM uses a 737-700 between EHAM and KIAD. The flights I have seen are KLM663 and KLM664. I see on FlightAware that they use either the B737/W or B737/Q.

That's actually EHAM - KIAH! Amsterdam to Houston! And apparently non-stop. That is a 4356nm trip! The only 737 I know that can swing that is the ER. Does KLM fly the 737-7ER?

[rinoltz]

That's actually EHAM - KIAH! Amsterdam to Houston! And apparently non-stop. That is a 4356nm trip! The only 737 I know that can swing that is the ER. Does KLM fly the 737-7ER?

Yep, it sure is KIAH. Just realized I typed that wrong.

[DAL767-400ER]

That's actually EHAM - KIAH! Amsterdam to Houston! And apparently non-stop. That is a 4356nm trip! The only 737 I know that can swing that is the ER. Does KLM fly the 737-7ER?

Nope. The flight is being operated by PrivatAir on behalf of KLM using a BBJ.

[whiteguy]

Aloha was flying YVR-PHNL direct with thier 737 aircraft. 2700 miles.

So did Air Pacific with a B738.

Also WJ uses the B738 to most of the Hawaiian Islands from YVR and from YYJ-HNL with the 737-700.

They are now flying YYC-OGG/HNL and YEG-OGG with B737-700s but with pax restriction to around 100 pax.

[B2Spirit]

B733 etops!

How many of you remember TEA Switzerland then...
They had ETOPS B737-300s and flew ZRH-JFK. The rear hold had a fuel cell fitted inside it to increase the range... The aircraft actually had a very small ETOPS label on one side of the nose wheel doors.... have been unable to find a photo in the database to show you though. I think HB-IIB was one of at least two that were ETOPS, think other was HB-IIE.

[LH-B744]

Transatlantic better with B737 or B757?

Recently I read a flightplan which contained EDDH - KEWR nonstop, and they announce a CO-B757 for this flight, don't know if they use the -200 or the -300. But I'd guess the 757s don't cross the pond that frequently, do they?

The flightplan says EDDH - KEWR = 6125 km, is there a way to fly that with a B737? Seems to me alot like reducing the pax number on board to maybe half of the seats, and instead do the t/o with some more fuel.

[Evan]

Nope. The flight is being operated by PrivatAir on behalf of KLM using a BBJ.

Aha! Doesn't count.

[HalcyonDays]

But I'd guess the 757s don't cross the pond that frequently, do they?

They cross the Atlantic very frequently in fact, maybe a few dozen times a day, operated by several airlines on scheduled flights, plus numerous other non-scheduled flights.

[Shanwick]

Recently I read a flightplan which contained EDDH - KEWR nonstop, and they announce a CO-B757 for this flight, don't know if they use the -200 or the -300. But I'd guess the 757s don't cross the pond that frequently, do they?

Yes they do.We get two a day in Dublin.CO only use -200's across the pond.