Colgan DHC-8 crashed in Buffalo

[Foxtrot]

RIP to those who were onboard

[bobbydee]

Watching FOXNEWS. They keep showing a scrawl that lists many problems with the landing gear of this type.

[avro_arrow_25206]

Watching FOXNEWS. They keep showing a scrawl that lists many problems with the landing gear of this type.

That's the media for you. They also likely conveniently gloss over the fact that SAS maintenance is to blame as well for those incidents. Frankly, it's largely irrelevant to this incident in the first place.

[screaming_emu]

That's the media for you. They also likely conveniently gloss over the fact that SAS maintenance is to blame as well for those incidents. Frankly, it's largely irrelevant to this incident in the first place.

Yeah..I'm glad I'm not allowed to suck at my job as much as reporters do in mainstream media.

[Evan]

I listened to the ATC tape. The last approach directive was turn left from 310 to 260. Whatever happened seems to have occurred at the outer marker as 3407 was heading 260, on an ILS approach, intercepting the localizer for runway 23 at 233. So, not being an expert here, I am assuming a number of things may be happening at this point: A left bank to 233, gear down, flaps extended, autopilot disengagement combined with possible ice accretion. Could this have initiated a stall? If the accretion was on the tail surface and the crew, with only seconds to act, confused it for wing accretion, would that be catastrophic? Is this one of those perfect storm scenarios, just a freak of unfortunate circumstances coming together at the wrong critical moment?

[pilotgolfer]

RIP


One of my friends was a pilot on the flight that was behind this flight and I can bet he's a bit freaked out right now about this.

[scottkin]

Well one thing is for sure. They didn't have any altitude to work with. A very sad accident for sure. RIP

[AVION1]

Well one thing is for sure. They didn't have any altitude to work with. A very sad accident for sure. RIP

An iced-up airplane can fall from the sky just like a rock..even with good altitude!!...anyone remember the American Eagle ATR near Chicago?..I think it was a 4,000 making a hold pattern, when it nosed dived to the ground killing everyone aboard, including some german tourists trying to make a connection to Frankfurt.

[Dmmoore]

I have no idea what caused this event. Speculating about ice seems to be the major topic.

As has been mentioned, ice accumulates on the leading edges of the airframe. It does not accumulate on other areas in flight.

Turbo props do not use bleed air for airfoil anti-icing. Pneumatic boots are installed on the leading edges of the wings and stabilizers. These boots are inflated which fractures the ice, the air stream carries the ice away.

Engines are anti-iced using bleed air (hot air) to anti-ice the inlet cowl and inlet guide vanes.

Jet powered aircraft generally use engine bleed air to heal the airfoil leading edges and engines.

When flying in icing conditions, the auto pilot is to be disconnect every few minutes (10?) so the pilot is aware of any trim changes the auto pilot may have masked.

In very heavy icing conditions, it is possible for the ice build up to extend beyond the area covered by the wing leading edge boot and a build up of ice can occur which could act as a spoiler. I have no idea if any of the above applies to this event.

May those who lost their lives RIP.
May those left behind find peace, support and comfort from those of us who can provide such.

This is the first fatal accident for the Q400

[rohank4284]

I have no idea what caused this event. Speculating about ice seems to be the major topic.

As has been mentioned, ice accumulates on the leading edges of the airframe. It does not accumulate on other areas in flight.

Turbo props do not use bleed air for airfoil anti-icing. Pneumatic boots are installed on the leading edges of the wings and stabilizers. These boots are inflated which fractures the ice, the air stream carries the ice away.

Engines are anti-iced using bleed air (hot air) to anti-ice the inlet cowl and inlet guide vanes.

Jet powered aircraft generally use engine bleed air to heal the airfoil leading edges and engines.


When flying in icing conditions, the auto pilot is to be disconnect every few minutes (10?) so the pilot is aware of any trim changes the auto pilot may have masked.

In very heavy icing conditions, it is possible for the ice build up to extend beyond the area covered by the wing leading edge boot and a build up of ice can occur which could act as a spoiler. I have no idea if any of the above applies to this event.

May those who lost their lives RIP.
May those left behind find peace, support and comfort from those of us who can provide such.

This is the first fatal accident for the Q400

I completely agree with you. It does seem to be a icing incident, but doesn't the plane give some sort of visual of audible warning when the wings or engines start to ice up. It will be interesting to see if the pilot had the anti-ice features enabled or not.

Another horrible plane event in the US following US 1549 and CO 1404, it's extremely sad that in this case it cost 49 people lives. May they rest in peace and I hope the NTSB will find the cause of this crash soon.

Regards,

Rohan

[Dmmoore]

I completely agree with you. It does seem to be a icing incident, but doesn't the plane give some sort of visual of audible warning when the wings or engines start to ice up. It will be interesting to see if the pilot had the anti-ice features enabled or not.

Another horrible plane event in the US following US 1549 and Co 1404, it's extremely sad that in this case it cost 49 people lives. May they rest in peace and I hope the NTSB will find the cause of this crash soon.

Regards,

Rohan

I'm not sure how the Q400's system is activated. Most systems rely on the pilot to activate them after the crew A) notices ice accumulation. B) when the OAT is in the icing range (+10 to -10C) or C) when entering areas of visible moisture.

[fishinmission5369]

Newbie here...Just thought I'd mention witnesses reported engines "sputtering"...

Prayers go out to all involved and their loved ones.

Mark

[AVION1]

Newbie here...Just thought I'd mention witnesses reported engines "sputtering"...

Prayers go out to all involved and their loved ones.

Mark

Every time there is an air accident, you can find the same "witnesses" hearing the engines "sputtering"...even during the space shuttle accident...
My God...!!

[LingLo]

"Sputtering" sounds--spin?

*If* the cause of the accident was a stall/spin, then this could certainly account for the witness reports of the unusual engine sounds. From experience at airshows, as well as my own stall/spin training, I can imagine how engine/prop sounds from a spinning aircraft (especially a twin) could be interpreted as "sputtering."

Sad day...

[scottkin]

Both boxes found. Hopefully this is an easy one to figure out. Never seems to work out that way though. I got a chance to look at some of the pictures from the accident. By the looks of the damage pattern it was very localized. Very little damage to neighboring houses. looks like a nearly vertical impact. Very sad indeed.