Passenger Ignites Explosive on NWA/DL flight Flight 253

[TeeVee]

I am not even sure that "mostly" of Middle Eastern descent is accurate - there have been many who were Caucasian (including Americans), European, Somali, African, Pakistani, south and East Asian etc. etc. The guy yesterday was Nigerian, for example.

you are correct about the different nationalities, but their numbers are small compared to middle eastern. however, i should add persian to the mix, cuz they seemed to have joined the band wagon too.

whatever, kill 'em all and let allah sort them out.

[MCM]

but their numbers are small compared to middle eastern

Any proof of that one?

whatever, kill 'em all and let allah sort them out.

Brilliant plan. And you wonder why the rest of the world disagrees with American views, and why others are so critical on the way the USA handles these situations.

[beachfront]

you are correct about the different nationalities, but their numbers are small compared to middle eastern. however, i should add persian to the mix, cuz they seemed to have joined the band wagon too.

It does not have to be called "racial" profiling..

Right after 911 the CFO of my fathers company was taken off a NYC - LAX flight (with guns) for "questioning".. he had a middle eastern background and was interviewed by all the news teams hoping to get a juicy story... Was he upset and wanting to sue the world? Hell no.. based on what just happened he expected it and had no problems with it..

If a slew of white catholic men with blonde hair start blowing things up and I get pulled aside at the airport because of it I have no poblem with that ... it seems pretty logical to me ...

lets just be consistant on how we are doing this ... any sound minded person will agree.

[beachfront]

Brilliant plan. And you wonder why the rest of the world disagrees with American views, and why others are so critical on the way the USA handles these situations.

How should they be handled in your opinion? All I have read is complaints with no solutions what so ever...fact of the matter is there are very few 911 like intances and someone had to take some kind of initiative..

[AVION1]

Racial profiling will not work.....for example most of the 9-11 terrorists were caucasians, Mohamed Atta was a light skin, blue eyes guy. If you have never been in Syria or Lebanon probably you don't know what I am talking about. Tim Mcveight and the Columbine Kids are another example of this. There are several terrorist groups in Europe which are also a problem for any commercial airliner...the ETA in Spain or the Irish terrorist group, I am pretty sure their members are also caucasians.

[mapguy]

Racial profiling will not work.....for example most of the 9-11 terrorists were caucasians, Mohamed Atta was a light skin, blue eyes guy. If you have never been in Syria or Lebanon probably you don't know what I am talking about. Tim Mcveight and the Columbine Kids are another example of this. There are several terrorist groups in Europe which are also a problem for any commercial airliner...the ETA in Spain or the Irish terrorist group, I am pretty sure their members are also caucasians.

Atta and his crew were caucasians? By that definition Wayne Gretzky is a Phillipino.

That post has to be the most assinine I have seen here on JP.

[Vincentomoh]

Delta should have a videotape of Deltalina shoving a pie (not a piping hot pie - a cold pie) in Abdumutallab's face. It would make the terrorist look like an utter fool. It would put some humor in the situation. Maybe afterwards Schuringa could shove a different pie in Abdumutallab's face.

[MCM]

If you really want to do a good job of profiling today, you look for young middle eastern men.

If you think that is how profiling works, then you've got no clue whatsoever.

[HalcyonDays]

I suspect MCM above may be on the right track. Anyway, the point about profiling is that racial or ethnic profiling may work sometimes, but far more important is behavioral profiling whic has been quietly introduced in recent years.

People would be deluding themselves if they think there is no racial or ethnic profiling, but of course we don't admit it or call it that. For example, passengers of Pakistani ethnic origin who are UK citizens traveling to the US without a visa are monitored fairly closely behind the scenes.

That said, while behavioral profiling is not the same thing, there is some overlap. In truth, security is a many-layered process, and no single method will work, which is why we have multiple approaches. You might say it functions on the Swiss cheese theory.

[EconomyClass]

For those who don't like "profiling", why do the police insist on as good a description as they can get like height, weight, color, tattoos, etc, etc. They want to know what they are looking for and rule out all people with any physical feature not present. In short, all police searches "profile". If a witness says a bank robber was bald, is it wrong for police to treat every bald person as a person of interest?

They say he was on a Datamart database with 550,000 other people. Hmmm. Are there really that many suspicious people around. Maybe they should aim for 800 million to a billion since every Muslim could be in a sleepeer cell, right? But if he applied for a visa and his name was in that database, TSA should at least have known the flight had a radicalized Muslim on it. What they do about that, I don't know. But my feeling is that they should have not been surprised at the news of this atttempt. Hell, with these shadowy agencies, how do we really know they were surprised at all?

The security people are repetitively bringing up body scans. Maybe indeed all passengers should be body scanned. But if that is politically impossible, could at least the people identified as "to be watched" be body scanned? My wife got pulled aside for some craft scissors. Irks me if the Mudullab guy didn't at least get her measure of interest from Dutch security.

By the way, I wonder if he was supposed to fake Type 1 diabetes when he jabbed the hypodermic into his leg bomb.

[HalcyonDays]

But if he applied for a visa and his name was in that database, TSA should at least have known the flight had a radicalized Muslim on it.

I think the point is that he applied for (and was granted) a visa before his name appeared on the list (that list being not the same as the so-called No Fly list).

[Evan]

Muslim is not a race. Islam is not a race.

Other religious sects and atheists go through airports every day with even lower incidences of terrorism; so perhaps you're saying that we shouldn't have security at all? (If you don't feel a person's religion or country of origin is pertinent in screening; then what to you consider pertinent?)

Islam is not a sect.

The historical usage of the term sect in Christendom has had pejorative connotations, referring to a group or movement with heretical beliefs or practices that deviate from those of groups considered orthodox.
Although in past it was mostly used to refer to religious groups, it has since expanded and in modern culture can refer to any organization that breaks away from a larger one to follow a different set of rules and principles. The term is occasionally used in a malicious way to suggest the broken-off group follows a more negative path than the original.

You see, what we are really dealing with is not Islam, but it is a sect, an extremist group splintered off from a major world religion. I am not against profiling, not at all, in fact I am for it if it is done intelligently. But, to date, there is no machine that can look into the heart or determine religious affiliation. If a person has been linked to an extremist sect or secular terrorist organization, that individual should be profiled. If, however, an individual only appears to be a Middle Eastern Muslim, it is of supreme importance that this individual is shown equal respect under the law and treated with the same dignity as any other member of society. Whatever is done to them must also be done to us.

Why?

Listen, ask yourself this question: DO I WANT TO BE A TOOL FOR AL QAEDA?

Al Qaeda has a central mission: to polarize the division between devout Islam and the 'heretical' modern world. As modern Islam has grown more tolerant and integrated with the outside world, Al Qaeda has reacted with terrorism. Their intent is to extinguish this tolerance on both sides. They want us to reject Muslims and they want Muslims to reject us. Fortunately, most of us live outside the extremes they profess, and desire tolerance. We want the world to be multicultural and at peace.

When you begin to throw around ideas about racial profiling, they win. When, as a result of racial profiling, dark-skinned, Middle Eastern 'appearing' people begin to develop a deep resentment towards white Anglo-Saxons, they win. When the world becomes divided and intolerant, they win.

DO YOU WANT TO BE A TOOL FOR AL QAEDA, OR DO YOU WANT TO DEFEND AND UPHOLD THE CHRISTIAN PRINCIPAL OF TOLERANCE?

Instead, we have to be more aggressive in developing and implementing technology-based solutions (body scanning technology has been made available but is still barely implemented. It is 7 1/2 years since 9/11. What's the hold up?) And, in terms of profiling, we need to be surgical and vigilant. The illusion of airport security might be good for the industry, but it won't prevent another attack.

The current restrictions imposed by the TSA play right into the terrorist agenda. Once again, they have been caught pants down, and have had to implement ridiculous stop-gap measures. This convinces me that the agency needs to be purged of bureaucrats and equipped with better minds.

[EconomyClass]

I think the point is that he applied for (and was granted) a visa before his name appeared on the list (that list being not the same as the so-called No Fly list).

Is there some news source that has supplied the dates of when his father reported him and when he got his visa. If not, how can we use that as an assumption? But its true that people who get reported by someone after being cleared to travel are a chink in the armor. One can just hope that they are a minute percentage, and no system will ever be a fine enough sieve to catch them. That's where the airport screening devices come in. Does that suggest to anyone that no flights to the US should be allowed unless the airport has the wherewithal to do topflight passenger screening? The international air carrier organization should grade the quality of screening at every airport. Only those with an A-grade can originate a flight to America.

I sure wish they'd perfect that plastic explosive detecting device. Failing that, screeners will have to have a stripping room with female TSO's checking naked female passengers and male TSO's (hopefully not gay) screening naked male passengers.

Or how about form fitting "flight suits" required for admission to planes? Leg bombs would show up, and I'd just love to sit and watch the ladies take their seats on the planes. I mean, most American girls wear jeans that are nearly that tight.

[Evan]

Two foreign airlines, Air Canada and British Airways, disclosed the steps in notices on their Web sites. The airlines said the rules had been implemented by government security agencies including the T.S.A.

“Among other things,” the statement on Air Canada’s Web site read, “during the final hour of flight customers must remain seated, will not be allowed to access carry-on baggage, or have personal belongings or other items on their laps.”

I still can't get over how idiotic this is. So the next terrorist sets up his little act when there is more than an hour left, has the goods in his pocket when he sits back down... what does this accomplish? And what makes them think that a suicidal terrorist going to obey the new 'rules' in the first place?

This, my friends, is the industry creating a public-relations illusion that they are handling the threat. Meanwhile, most security points lack the (available) equipment to detect explosives taped to the leg.

I'd like to know why everyone directs their anger at the Muslim world and not the TSA.

[AVION1]

One pax just said he saw a melted syringe still attached to his burned leg...and the guy came from the lavatory 20 minutes before the incident. As per a dutch newspaper, the explosive was PETN (the same kind of explosive the Shoe Bomb guy was trying to ignite), and for some reason the "detonator" failed.