Polish President and wife killed in Tu-154 crash

[Northwester]

The testimony of the Yak-40 pilot is perfectly compatible with the Russian version: They had firewalled the throttles already a few seconds before colision of the left wing with the birch (explosion).

Are you serious here? A wing hitting a tree would create a sound of an explosion from a distance of about 1km?

The TAWS trajectory shows the plane flying above the tree. The type of damage to the wing, or no damage to the slat, precludes any contact with the tree. And the location of the vertical acceleration spikes, after the tree, near the TAWS #38, shows where the explosions might have happened.

[Northwester]

Most opinions here are those of people who have their own ideas (and ideaologys ? ) concerning what happened based on their unqualified personal thoughts.
It is entirely likely that the full true facts of this incident will never be known given the region of the world that it occurred in and the political ramifications of the potential truth.

This is probably the smartest thing ever said on this thread.

[Northwester]

Which is what you may expect to hear when an aircraft crashes. If the aircraft was not in sight, the testimony implies very little. He didn't see it shot down.

So what you are saying is that they heard the explosions when the plane hit the ground and afterwards they heard the sound of the engines dying down?

[Gabriel]

Are you serious here? A wing hitting a tree would create a sound of an explosion from a distance of about 1km?

It might.

And the location of the vertical acceleration spikes,

Which spikes. Those in the fake FDR data?

shows where the explosions might have happened.

I love the word "might".

[Northwester]

It might.

I love the word "might".

Which spikes. Those in the fake FDR data?

Why would they fake the FDR data? It was enough to tweak it a bit here and there. See attached.

But look at the Track Rate and Roll Angle in the data that was read in the US. Interesting?

[brianw999]

So what you are saying is that they heard the explosions when the plane hit the ground and afterwards they heard the sound of the engines dying down?

Now THAT is entirely possible, especially if the throttles had been firewalled just before impact. Watch and listen to this....

http://youtu.be/hcL5GN3CWcA

EDIT....and Evan, at the moment I'm disinclined to shut this thread down. All I ask is that contributors stop the accusation theories and stick to facts.

[Evan]

Now THAT is entirely possible, especially if the throttles had been firewalled just before impact. Watch and listen to this....

http://youtu.be/hcL5GN3CWcA

From the wreckage photos, I doubt any engine would have been spinning down after that impact. The engine in the helo incident was probably still intact. I think that testimony is another version of the ubiquitous "engines were on fire" witness report that follows every plane crash regardless of what the cause was.

[Northwester]

Now THAT is entirely possible, especially if the throttles had been firewalled just before impact. Watch and listen to this....

I think it is unlikely engine like this was still spinning after the ground impact.

[justLOT787]

It's been 101 pages of accusation theories. Are you expecting something's going to happen to change that now? In any event, the accusation theorists will claim that they are presenting the true facts, and that the official facts are falsified, so your criterion is a non-starter.

Well if you know a little bit of history between Poland and Russia you will have those like me accusing and theorizing accident's like this. If we know one thing Russia likes to cover stuff up and they are doing this with this accident. All the reports come from Moscow and PO which are in cahoots with with Russians. Yet Polish investigators don't have access to black boxes and the planes wrack. Accident like this one should be investigated by Poland, Russia and the international commission not just Russian. There are lies after lies coming out about this accident. It took Russia about 50 years to confess about Katyn mascara and it will take them about the same length of time to confess to this.

[brianw999]

I think it is unlikely engine like this was still spinning after the ground impact.

That wreckage picture was taken after the Russians had systematically ripped it apart using heavy bulldozers, industrial disc cutters and diggers to remove it from the scene. The first impact sounds would have preceded any engine impact destruction.

[Northwester]

The engines were in a pretty bad shape already right after the crash. From these pictures (about 25 min. after the crash) you can see engine #1 almost totally destroyed (pic 1 and 2), engines #2 and #3 partially destroyed.

[Northwester]

A balanced article about the crash:

http://www.cleveland.com/science/index.ssf/2012/04/university_of_akron_engineerin.html

[Northwester]

According to the prosecutor and the cell service provider, someone was using the president's cell phone 3 times after the crash on the 10th and the 11th. The first time the cell phone was used at 10:46 on the 10th, so 5 minutes after the official crash time. It took the first firefighters more than 10 minutes to arrive at the crash site. Whoever was using the phone logged into the network and checked the voicemail. The voicemail was checked again on the 11th at 12:40 and 4:20 PM.

[Evan]

A balanced article about the crash:
http://www.cleveland.com/science/ind...ngineerin.html

Agreed. It is more of a story on the post-crash phenomena than a story on the crash itself.

However...

Moments later, the jet's ground collision warning system sounded, its automated voice repeating "Terrain ahead! Pull up! Pull up!" The alert should have triggered an emergency climb. At a height of about 200 feet, the co-pilot said "Go around," apparently urging the pilot to abandon the landing attempt. The plane's "black box" flight data recorder noted that either the pilot or co-pilot briefly tugged the control column to try to gain altitude, but the autopilot, which was still on, overrode the effort.The steep descent continued.

With the jet at about 164 feet, a controller instructed the pilot to level off. Seconds later, someone yanked the control column and shoved the throttles to maximum power for an emergency climb. But it was too late. The cockpit voice recorder captured the sound of the plane striking treetops, the flight crew's curses, a controller shouting "Abort to second approach!" and finally someone's scream as the aircraft smashed to the ground.

But it's nice to take the discussion back to a somewhat intelligent level

Whoever was using the phone logged into the network and checked the voicemail.

Yeah, I knew it couldn't last.

[mawheatley]

Whoever was using the phone logged into the network and checked the voicemail. The voicemail was checked again on the 11th at 12:40 and 4:20 PM.

It's that Rupert Murdoch - he gets everywhere!